The Suning Commerce Group

Pimpin

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Unfortunately for you the Chinese Communist Party has completely infiltrated your Liberal Party on the federal level and owns most of the local politicians perticularly in British Columbia. Your government is a complete joke with regards to standing up for its citizens, its national sovereignty and standing up against the CCP.

facts, the EU and others will let commies conduct a genocide but will ban maths in schools to stop discrimination.

Saudis are angels in comparison to the chinese commies, albeit from what I gather Suning is opposition to the current commie chairmen, which I respect, and the saudi fund would be them funding us directly, the gov
 

I'mNewHere

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Can we get a non mass murderer non communist owner please, pretty please

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Also I hate Suning but comparing Suning to the Saudi regime ? Jesus man
 

Broseph Stalin

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Yup people are seriously comparing Chinese electronics retailer to the Saudi sovereign fund backed by the guy who ordered to cut a journalist into pieces. Jesus fucking Christ
 

kurt0411

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I mean have guys learned nothing from this past year? Suning is a puppet of the Chinese government, they told him to invest in us to help promote football in China so he did. Now they tell him to cut all ties....he’s cutting ties. Whatever they tell him to do he will do so yes we are currently owned by the Chinese government hence the situation we’re in
 

Strale

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Imo nothing will change for the better for anyone suffering by the hands of our potential buyers if Inter were owned by someone not-evil. And the depravity is so far gone it can't get any worse.
 

Forzanerazzurri

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Yup people are seriously comparing Chinese electronics retailer to the Saudi sovereign fund backed by the guy who ordered to cut a journalist into pieces. Jesus fucking Christ

Yes that's exactly what we're doing. You need to get your head out of your ass wrt the CCP.

That said we should probably move on.
 

Verathia

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Can we get a non mass murderer non communist owner please, pretty please

- - - Updated - - -

Also I hate Suning but comparing Suning to the Saudi regime ? Jesus man

murder is where the money is at apparently
 

bubba zanetti

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I would support Inter if Al qaeda or Isil bought Inter from Suning if that helps Inter to fuck that gobbo scumbags from Torino.
 

Anne Marie

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That's probably because you do not understand what that kind of money is and why people invest their money around. It's not a video game where you just establish your domain and pounce your chest at anyone coming at you. Having money doesn't mean you get to waste it, unless it's personal wealth and you view this as a toy, like Moratti, Berlusconi and later Abramovich or Rybolovev. Investment funds, even sovereign ones, are held accountable. They cannot just do whatever they want because they can afford it. The Arabs that got involved with PSG and Manchester City wanted to flash their money and the royal family structure is less complicated than the Saudi one, so it's more centralized.

Minority stake means that they're there for the growth potential, not the management. It allows you to have a say without being held accountable. And it also gives you an insight of how the thing works before committing fully for it, in case that's your end goal.
Another thing is to manage the risk of the investment.

And in this case, if the Chinese are still around, it gives whomever gets the small seat on the table the access to the Chinese market. For that small risk involved, there's huge upside for this party.

Economic and finance wise, should we understand PIF more or less as a pure 'sovereign fund'? Just like say Australian Superannuation (Pension) fund? The Arabs are buying 30% Inter just to make some safe investments?
How would Inter benefit from having an Arab sovereign fund as a minority holder? I am asking this because the money might not be 'clean' but in term of long term benefit for Inter, I am wondering does PIF provide Inter something more than just helping Sunning short-term liquidity issue? To put it more bluntly, are we buying Messi?
 

Candreva Crosses

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People here are too brainwashed. Why does it matter if China, Saudi, USA or Russia owns us? Its all the fucking same.

So are American companies.... what is your point

I don’t care who owns us. We really never notice at all. Do you really want a d bag owner at all the games yelling at players

America, starts war in several countries but sportwashing is much worse :palm: Other countries sell weapon to countries to continue the wars. Why even start getting political about that?

Fucking Real Madrid the biggest of them all chose their own opponents in CL during their 5 win in a row 60 years ago. Sometimes they didn't even play the group stage while being supported by the fucking KING hence REAL Madrid.

I rather support a team that is owned by a saudi than support a team who is cheating and then compares themself to noncheating teams and cries about titles that got removed from their cabinet.

As long as we hold onto our identity and personality I don't give 2 single fucks about who owns us.
 
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looool

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I see people being biased and attacking suning and CCP without solid evidence. Clearly, Suning has invested a lot in the past few years and it's the best owner since Massimo Moratti, notably one of the most dedicated owners to the club in history.
 

kurt0411

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I see people being biased and attacking suning and CCP without solid evidence. Clearly, Suning has invested a lot in the past few years and it's the best owner since Massimo Moratti, notably one of the most dedicated owners to the club in history.

Best owner since Moratti Lol....doesn’t take much to be better than Thohir. I think it goes both ways, people over here also greatly overrate their spending. They done a good job of stabilizing the club, I think they done a fantastic job going for Marotta and subsequently Conte cos there sure as hell no way we were ever going to get close to a scudetto with Spalletti. But now they need to fuck off...it’s that simple really
 

looool

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Unfortunately for you the Chinese Communist Party has completely infiltrated your Liberal Party on the federal level and owns most of the local politicians perticularly in British Columbia. Your government is a complete joke with regards to standing up for its citizens, its national sovereignty and standing up against the CCP.


Typically influenced by your media, I suggest you come down to China and visit the Country by yourself, talk to people, it's really not what you think.
 

wera

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I'd like to thank the mods for not deleting the political posts. It's probably one of the best discussions I've read in a while.

On one hand I don't want Inter to fall again like in the 2010s. But that's me being selfish.

There are so many things I don't agree with when I think about the world - chinese government, the saudis, americans, even italians,... and it plays with my conscience. I kinda like Steven Zhang as our president, at least he feels like a genuine good dude.. but right now we need somebody with money and that is as ruthless as Marotta and Conte are. Just hopefully it's not some slave master or other kind of criminal

Seriously I don't know what to do. I was very opposed against having Chinese owners. I can't even endorse Blizzard anymore because of all their sucking up, and I see Serie A is doing the same to China.
 

Jane The Virgin

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At their core every multibillion company has some evil in it. Deep dark evil.

Let's not be naive and assume only the Saudis are the bad guys in all of this.

There isn't someone who has shit tons of money and is pure as an angel.

Not justifying anything, but let's face it, this is the reality we live in. It either accept this reality or have sunning liquidate Inter, we start from scratch, as serie C1 north (or whatever), and through hard work and integrity and honesty, we never reach serie a. EVER AGAIN.

The only thing I'm concerned is if the Saudis buy 30 percent or more (or less for that matter) and start pushing some agendas through Inter, then that's a major redflag. But until then, fuck it...
 

I'mNewHere

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At their core every multibillion company has some evil in it. Deep dark evil.

Let's not be naive and assume only the Saudis are the bad guys in all of this.

There isn't someone who has shit tons of money and is pure as an angel.

Not justifying anything, but let's face it, this is the reality we live in. It either accept this reality or have sunning liquidate Inter, we start from scratch, as serie C1 north (or whatever), and through hard work and integrity and honesty, we never reach serie a. EVER AGAIN.

The only thing I'm concerned is if the Saudis buy 30 percent or more (or less for that matter) and start pushing some agendas through Inter, then that's a major redflag. But until then, fuck it...

dumbest thing I have read ever
 

brehme1989

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Economic and finance wise, should we understand PIF more or less as a pure 'sovereign fund'? Just like say Australian Superannuation (Pension) fund? The Arabs are buying 30% Inter just to make some safe investments?
How would Inter benefit from having an Arab sovereign fund as a minority holder? I am asking this because the money might not be 'clean' but in term of long term benefit for Inter, I am wondering does PIF provide Inter something more than just helping Sunning short-term liquidity issue? To put it more bluntly, are we buying Messi?

Actually a great question.

The answer is, we cannot know. It all depends on the reasons for their involvement.

Ignoring all the politics, let's just dissect this and see what the situation can be like with a minority shareholder.

Assuming it will take place, we're talking about a 30% shareholder situation. Perhaps they want more, but we know that Suning wants to transfer that 31% or whatever it is to the guys who will bring fresh liquidity.

If this shareholder wants to complete the transaction eventually, unless there are triggers involved that make them buy out a portion of Suning's cut to eventually make them the major shareholders, then perhaps it is not to their best interest to add a Messi. It would eventually raise the valuation of their investment, meaning that on paper they'll have more (unrealized) but if they want to complete the deal, they'd have to pay more money per share.
If they just want a piece of the action, then they will want someone like Messi. Because they'd be satisfied to have an investment that has increased in value.

The issue is, how do you add the funds needed for a Messi? It's not just the fact that you're part owner makes you able to throw money there.

There are two ways of funding. And a third, indirect road is also available which is more and more common these days in football due to stupid UEFA regulation. That indirect method is through sponsorships, but those are curbed. As is the amount a shareholder may pump to the club with any other of the two methods.

So whomever comes now as a minority shareholder will add needed liquidity. How do you add money to a company?

Well, you can either loan the money, so you get an equity cut (% of the company's shares) for a fee, that goes to the selling shareholder's pocket and then provide the company with say, a 200m loan deal. So you'll be expecting that back. With interest usually. Usually this is also how an LBO (leveraged buy out) works, which is what BC Partners will most likely be going after. So loaning money to the club adds 'assets' on the balance sheet, as cash, but also adds 'liability', as you now have an extra long term debt to compensate for that.

The other way you can do this, is by issuing an increase of share capital. This is usually the most common practice performed by football club owners that want to pump extra money. What this means is that the company had let's say 10,000,000 shares, worth $1,00 each. It needs $2,000,000 right now which it cannot find from elsewhere. The owners then issue this and ask the rest of the shareholders to cover it themselves. They set the share price, but to keep it simple, let's say that they also pretend that the club's valuation has increased, so the price is also set at $1 rather than make it $0.83 plus a couple of extra decimals to keep the valuation at $10m. Usually this means that everyone will chip in their percentage. If you fail to do this, your % of equity will decrease. This is what they call dilution. So if other shareholders are diluted and someone else cover their dues, the % of equity of this person will increase.

So this gives incentive to new potential shareholders to get a piece of the pie. Company gains 'assets', the money, like before. But now what increases is the 'capital'. Assets = Liabilities + Capital. Because the company is essentially a vehicle where an investor puts in the capital and expects it to come back to him. They're both things that the company owes to outsiders.

Combinations are also possible, of course. So you could have someone get in the action by a capital increase and then grant a loan to the company they got a % of.

I'm not exactly sure what the shareholder situation is now and what exactly Suning is after. They wanted to replace Lionrock apparently, but I'm not exactly sure how to uncomplicate things in writing if that's the situation as these rae minority shares exchanging hands in a few words. Lionrock also partly owned Suning Sports, so we can understand that this whole situation becomes even messier.

Lionrock Capital has been with us as a minority shareholder for some time but we do not really know nor hear about any of their actions. They evidently cannot add funds to the company, Suning also has not allowed them to extend their ownership as we have not heard about a sale of shares nor of any share capital increase.

Now, is there incentive for a minority shareholder, apart from a financial perspective, to give money to a football club? Signing Messi for example would require at least an extra $200m on top of our needs. Sure, a fund may do that, get Messi on some sponsorship deals for their own purpose, flash him around, say that they co-own Inter who Messi now plays for and get their money back + interest from this whole charade. While their investment valuation increases. While it will be very hard for them to get the majority stake, assuming Suning sticks around and does the minimum required as shareholder, it will also be near impossible for them to buy back the share they just sold. The minority shareholder will be asking for far more now and it may be uneconomical for the majority shareholder to keep this going, so a new deal may be cut and the minority shareholder, being in a better financial position (outside of Inter) and also have a better project worked out for future cash flows at Inter, may be in a position to, yes, pay more for the remaining %, but face a majority shareholder that cannot keep up with the growth. This is highly unlikely of course in our case provided that Suning is still around and the Chinese do not call for a full divestment, but it's still possible.


Now back to the political part for a final note. I reckon that the Chinese may be more lenient with owning Inter if it bridges them with a sovereign Arab fund. It opens the doors for multiple transactions, but we will now face unprecedented geopolitical risk for Inter, as we will be relying on International Relations between two regions that do not have a direct interest in Italy and if their relationship becomes sour, Inter will be the one to suffer. That's a political risk that Inter will be facing if this goes on. Usually money wins, but when even one of the parties is too ideological, you cannot have a working relationship. Best case scenario would be that one of the two parties 'wins' the Inter battle if it ever goes there. Facing scrutiny by Italy in case they don't like either the Chinese or the Arabs is not something of concern for Inter, we already face enough scrutiny for being Interisti :lol:
 

Matawil

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What I don't understand is how a country like Italy can lose a brand like FC Internationale.

is Italy that poor? are their no Italian companies, funds, entities you name it who are interested in the ownership of inter? that's weird. because all the top clubs in Europe are still owned by their countries except for Milan and Inter.

and by topclubs I dont inlude psg , and Mancity.
 
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