Rafael Benítez

[il Biscione 84]

Van Gaal doesn't have a track record for fucking up.

A dutch version of Capello without the talent

 

[blackmore]

Thats the thing you did say it but now you realise you contradicted yourself.
You go on about what terms were stipulated when he first arrived have you got a link to this "story" or are you just making up BS like you did about him breaking what Shanks built.
If no reinforcements were promised they why did MM bother with his "fake bids" .
The continuity you talk about had left Inter prior to rafa arriving, everyone and his dog knew you needed new players.

well if u were an actual inter fan i wouldnt need to post one for you, thus im not going too. everyone knows about it. see its pointless talkng to you about it cause you only see it from the red side....

i know what i said and for you to even think otherwise is just

 

[skeet]

I think he did not have a good enough team to succeed. I don't think he is a bad coach. Plus it is only his first 4 months. You need time to impose your tactics and learn the team. In the meantime he only had youngsters to work with, too many injuries.

Remember Van Gaal last year? Would you fire Van Gaal in last year's December? Or this year for that matter? Is he a bad coach?

this time last season van gaal had 9 wins and just 2 losses, even if rafa beats catania and napoli by some miracle he would still have a worse record

not to mention that van gaal was never 13 points behind the leaders and he never publicly bashed his bosses

 

[n4l]

(1) bad results is NOT the root cause of rafa's problems with this team
alternatives on the bench is NOT the root cause of rafa's problems with this team
injuries (his fault) are not the root cause of rafa's problems with this team
management supposed promises are not the root cause of rafa's problems with this team

the root cause is HE DOESN'T HAVE THE RESPECT OF THE PLAYERS ON THE TEAM

if rafa gets kuyt and mascherano and whoever else he wanted and gets to stay longer with the team, how does that:
- help rafa get the respect of the current Inter squad?
- help rafa motivate maicon, jc, cuchu, sneidjer and milito (core of the team) to play better and give their all and "die for rafa" like they did for jose?

i know the answer to those questions and THIS is the main reason why rafa getting more time or getting more players doesn't solve his major problem.




(2) I have heard enough of these 9000 reasons why we are 7th in the league and getting smashed by tottenham and werder...

don't give me bullshit about how many games we've played last year. Only jc, maicon and zanetti played a lot of games. Everybody else played less than 50 games. I can easily name 3 barca players who played over 50 games. Or Real Madrid players e.t.c.

don't give me bullshit about treble and pyschology. Barca won 6 and didn't have problems with players being in HORRENDOUS form. Barca won league and their players won WC and so far this year, NONE of their Spanish NT boys are in HORRENDOUS form or falling down like flies with muscle injuries

did we need reinforcements? of course.
do i agree with the management's mercato? of course not.
But the squad as is is capable of playing much better than it is right now and THAT is the real problem. Reinforcements and management have NOTHING to do with rafa getting this squad to play.



(3) on another note, this fuckin shit about "trust" in the manager is quite ludicrous. Rafa is not Jose, Ferguson, or Capello. He is not an elite coach who automatically demands respect. He is an above average coach.

With that out of the way, coaching is a game of you EARN trust and respect. It is not given to you just because you won CL in 2004. You have to PROVE you know what you're doing before you're given more support. More importantly, you have to PROVE you know what you're doing with THIS TEAM. This is a no brainer and it is baffling that people are against management for not "fully" supporting him.

Why should management fully support rafa?

- He is not an elite coach.
- His track record with transfers are abysmal at best. He spent 230mil on 59 players in 6 years. That's 10 players transferred in and ~ 38mil spent every year. RIDICULOUS.
- His performances in the league with Liverpool (last 6 years) have been wildly inconsistent AND WITHOUT TITLES. One year they were competitive, next year, they're out of the title race by november. Terribly inconsistent.

here's a quesiton. If YOU were management, will YOU give rafa money straight away to buy 3 players? 2 of his players were going to cost 30 mil. Would YOU give rafa that 30mil? I know I would not.

every coach that plies his trade knows this is a fact of life. Unless you're elite, you have to prove you're good. And even if you don't get the transfers you want (99% of coaches), you have to prove you can work with and manage the squad you have. It is quite simple actually.

 

[blackmore]

yeah its like all these ppl talking about putting trust in the manager. how long have you been following this club for, MM aint like that.

the types that he's sent packing in the past......

 

[vitomins]

N4L, who would be your top 3 choices to replace Benitez? Forget rumors in the media and whatnot, based purely on who you feel is the best manager available right now, who would be your top 3? I remember you really like Dunga, so he would be your #1, no?

 

[Big Willy]

(1) bad results is NOT the root cause of rafa's problems with this team
alternatives on the bench is NOT the root cause of rafa's problems with this team
injuries (his fault) are not the root cause of rafa's problems with this team
management supposed promises are not the root cause of rafa's problems with this team

the root cause is HE DOESN'T HAVE THE RESPECT OF THE PLAYERS ON THE TEAM

if rafa gets kuyt and mascherano and whoever else he wanted and gets to stay longer with the team, how does that:
- help rafa get the respect of the current Inter squad?
- help rafa motivate maicon, jc, cuchu, sneidjer and milito (core of the team) to play better and give their all and "die for rafa" like they did for jose?

i know the answer to those questions and THIS is the main reason why rafa getting more time or getting more players doesn't solve his major problem.




(2) I have heard enough of these 9000 reasons why we are 7th in the league and getting smashed by tottenham and werder...

don't give me bullshit about how many games we've played last year. Only jc, maicon and zanetti played a lot of games. Everybody else played less than 50 games. I can easily name 3 barca players who played over 50 games. Or Real Madrid players e.t.c.

don't give me bullshit about treble and pyschology. Barca won 6 and didn't have problems with players being in HORRENDOUS form. Barca won league and their players won WC and so far this year, NONE of their Spanish NT boys are in HORRENDOUS form or falling down like flies with muscle injuries

did we need reinforcements? of course.
do i agree with the management's mercato? of course not.
But the squad as is is capable of playing much better than it is right now and THAT is the real problem. Reinforcements and management have NOTHING to do with rafa getting this squad to play.



(3) on another note, this fuckin shit about "trust" in the manager is quite ludicrous. Rafa is not Jose, Ferguson, or Capello. He is not an elite coach who automatically demands respect. He is an above average coach.

With that out of the way, coaching is a game of you EARN trust and respect. It is not given to you just because you won CL in 2004. You have to PROVE you know what you're doing before you're given more support. More importantly, you have to PROVE you know what you're doing with THIS TEAM. This is a no brainer and it is baffling that people are against management for not "fully" supporting him.

Why should management fully support rafa?

- He is not an elite coach.
- His track record with transfers are abysmal at best. He spent 230mil on 59 players in 6 years. That's 10 players transferred in and ~ 38mil spent every year. RIDICULOUS.
- His performances in the league with Liverpool (last 6 years) have been wildly inconsistent AND WITHOUT TITLES. One year they were competitive, next year, they're out of the title race by november. Terribly inconsistent.

here's a quesiton. If YOU were management, will YOU give rafa money straight away to buy 3 players? 2 of his players were going to cost 30 mil. Would YOU give rafa that 30mil? I know I would not.

every coach that plies his trade knows this is a fact of life. Unless you're elite, you have to prove you're good. And even if you don't get the transfers you want (99% of coaches), you have to prove you can work with and manage the squad you have. It is quite simple actually.

Yeah yeah... true... Sack him!

 

[bollockologist]

How do we know that Benitez does not have the trust and respect of the players? Because of what we read in the press?

As I said at the time we were thinking of firing Mancini, it always depends on the alternative. Firing Mancini looks good to me if the alternative is Mourinho.

Firing Benitez does not look good to me at all if the alternative is Leonardo.

It always depends on what the alternative solution is.

Benitez is a good coach to me. He had many things against him in these first months, the squad has been significantly weakened for many reasons.

Whether he has lost the respect of players is a different discussion but only MM and co can possess such information.

 

[nutcracker]

We should really focus on Hiddink, pay the money to get him becouse if we won't, we will be stuck in the hire-fire coaches game for another few years. Actually, I feel not THAT bad about Leonardo comming. I think he can't be worse than Benitez. But if we want to win the league and make the history as a first italian team to win 6 consecutive championship titles, then we really need to invest in Hiddink or Capello. No other option I see.

 

[Stefan]

How do we know that Benitez does not have the trust and respect of the players? Because of what we read in the press?

Because of the way we saw maicon,chivu and co react to him this season already. They would never try it with mou. You also have the way matrix and stankovic reacted after the cwc final. You can also read it from the body language during games.

 

[YNWALFC]

well if u were an actual inter fan i wouldnt need to post one for you, thus im not going too. everyone knows about it. see its pointless talkng to you about it cause you only see it from the red side....

i know what i said and for you to even think otherwise is just

Put up or shut up is one way of sorting it..

As for what you said its still in this thread and to say you havent said it is just unbelievable. So just stick to posting your little smileys and facepalms its more your level.

 

[Inter Inter]

As I said at the time we were thinking of firing Mancini, it always depends on the alternative. Firing Mancini looks good to me if the alternative is Mourinho.

Firing Benitez does not look good to me at all if the alternative is Leonardo.

.

I think this is a very rational argument.

But may I play the devil's advocate here. Just as having a "reputable" coach like Benitez is no guarantee of winning trophies (damn, when was the last time he actually won anything, huh? Pray tell please! Not before Inter, and Inter are already a proven champion team built by Mourinho), getting a "non-reputable" coach does not necessarily mean you're gonna get worse with our present lot.

Let's just look at Benitez. How many of you guys here know about Benitez's track record BEFORE Valencia? Two seasons of failure with two teams. He got fired twice by two clubs for unstoppable consecutive losses. Valencia came along, and for some reason, they hired him and then he made his name in La Liga. Hardly anybody spoke about how Valencia was already a very good team doing well in the CL, and how Real Madrid imploded in that season while Valencia ended tops.

By the same token, what makes any of you so sure that Leonardo or Zenga won't become an overnight sensation like Benitez (at that time)?

Benitez is one of those coaches who enjoyed a fortunate confluence of circumstances to get into the "hall of fame". Circumstances such as at Inter where the team are already well-constructed to win trophies and he only had to try very hard to push the wrong button to put us on a losing streak. When circumstances turned, he does seem to have difficulty managing the problems and getting things right. How does he deal with difficulties when his competence is being questioned? Look no further than Valencia and Liverpool -- he gets political and turns against the owners. When he left Valencia he blamed the owners. At Liverpool, he turned the fans against the owners. (I'm no fan of the Pool owners, but you DO NOT bite the hands that feed you). Now, at Inter he is blaming the owners again.

 

[AngelicRayment]

Put up or shut up is one way of sorting it..

As for what you said its still in this thread and to say you havent said it is just unbelievable. So just stick to posting your little smileys and facepalms its more your level.

Get a life, your fat spanish waiter is no longer here.

 

[Bulb]

Mou on his way back to Inter. Looks like swapping managers.

Moratti: "This situation is a bit tricky"
Wednesday, 22 December 2010 16:41:05 permalink

MILAN - Massimo Moratti gave a brief interview to the journalists that were waiting for him outside the Saras offices in the centre of Milan.

Inter.it brings you the full comments of the Nerazzurri president:

Mr president, we were wondering who you were going to lunch with?

"Don't worry. I'm going home."

Therefore we shouldn't expect Benitez's sacking today?

"Nothing should be expected. I swear to you I have not had the means to speak to anyone."

Is it true Inter are working to rescind Benitez's contract?

"No. We are trying to understand some things. This situation is a bit tricky. What happened was quite surprising. It is clear therefore, that we are looking at it from every angle."

So today, Benitez is still the Inter coach?

"As long as he is there..."

 

[bollockologist]

I think this is a very rational argument.

But may I play the devil's advocate here. Just as having a "reputable" coach like Benitez is no guarantee of winning trophies (damn, when was the last time he actually won anything, huh? Pray tell please! Not before Inter, and Inter are already a proven champion team built by Mourinho), getting a "non-reputable" coach does not necessarily mean you're gonna get worse with our present lot.

Let's just look at Benitez. How many of you guys here know about Benitez's track record BEFORE Valencia? Two seasons of failure with two teams. He got fired twice by two clubs for unstoppable consecutive losses. Valencia came along, and for some reason, they hired him and then he made his name in La Liga. Hardly anybody spoke about how Valencia was already a very good team doing well in the CL, and how Real Madrid imploded in that season while Valencia ended tops.

By the same token, what makes any of you so sure that Leonardo or Zenga won't become an overnight sensation like Benitez (at that time)?

Benitez is one of those coaches who enjoyed a fortunate confluence of circumstances to get into the "hall of fame". Circumstances such as at Inter where the team are already well-constructed to win trophies and he only had to try very hard to push the wrong button to put us on a losing streak. When circumstances turned, he does seem to have difficulty managing the problems and getting things right. How does he deal with difficulties when his competence is being questioned? Look no further than Valencia and Liverpool -- he gets political and turns against the owners. When he left Valencia he blamed the owners. At Liverpool, he turned the fans against the owners. (I'm no fan of the Pool owners, but you DO NOT bite the hands that feed you). Now, at Inter he is blaming the owners again.

very good post.

Indeed we don't know whether Zenga or Leonardo will do bad or good.

In then end it's a matter of how much you believe in someone. If we, for discussion's shake, assume that we hire Ferguson or Hiddink, we would give them, I'm sure, more than 4-5 months of bad results to prove their worth. That's because we believe in them.

If, on the other hand, we assume that we hire Spaletti or, say, Leonardo, we would probably seriously think of firing them after 4-5 months of bad results, just as we do with Benitez now.

If you believe in someone you keep him longer, if not, you get rid of him, in these types of situation. I think a lot boils down to that.

So the question is how much faith does the management have on Benitez's abilities, and for what reasons. Aside the players' respect, for which I cannot have any reliable information, I still have faith in his abilities and I believe that the squad he had in his hands was severely weakened. At this stage I wouldn't fire him, as long as the alternatives are the likes of Leonardo or Spaletti.

 

[YNWALFC]

Get a life, your fat spanish waiter is no longer here.

Said the Manc fan who only joins up to slag someone off . What did you think when the Tramp didnt win Sweet FA for 6 seasons?
How do you feel about your Owners raping your club and running up debts of approx 1 Billion while your manager tells life long fans to Fuck off and support Chelsea if they dont like it. :finger:

 

[YNWALFC]

Whats the Inter Manager doing at Anfield ?

 

[AngelicRayment]

Said the Manc fan who only joins up to slag someone off . What did you think when the Tramp didnt win Sweet FA for 6 seasons?
How do you feel about your Owners raping your club and running up debts of approx 1 Billion while your manager tells life long fans to Fuck off and support Chelsea if they dont like it. :finger:

We're polishing 3 EPL and 1 EC while you're self detonating.

We rejected the Glazer while you're bending over like a donkey

18-5, oh wait. 0-2?

 

[Forza ragazzi]

Take it elsewhere, guys.

 

[Nerrazuri red]

look back to pages 195-198 i remember mentioning the crisis after the world club cup and morrati's promises before it took place...anyhow its sad alround but i think a reconciliation might take place, (remember you heard it here first, if it happens.) also if it does not then those with brains need to have a look at this and read it..but remember the material is intelectual and it requires inteligence so be very careful..
http://www.forzafutbol.com/2010/12/...n=Feed%3A+forzafutbol+%28Forza+Futbol+Blog%29