English Premier League 2021/2022

Who wins?


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.h.

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I'll leave this here.

Also, I'd like to invite @.h. to have a read, we had a discussion on this earlier.
Super interesting read, thanks. That is legit money laundering.

But it doesnt really apply to Inter - unless you're suggesting Suning is just a front for some mafioso/criminal to launder money through Inter? The whole point of this sort of thing is to obfuscate someone's identity. Zhang and Suning dont benefit by being that front.


Really good read though, none the less.
 

brehme1989

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There's a video and some audio files as well.

Not suggesting anything about Inter, mostly verifying what I've been saying for a very long time. That English football is the result of money laundering and if you want to compete with them dollar for dollar, this is what you're asking for.
 

.h.

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Ah right

Yeh, I'm not that surprised. I dont know if it applies to the big clubs though. I mean, dont get me wrong, Abrahamovic didnt buy Chelsea for his love of sport, but its not laundering criminal money IN THE SENSE of the article above (obviously the source of the money, etc, is all suspect but in a bit of a different way). I'd assume Utd/Arsenal/Liverpool are fine as well - very rich but with fairly clear ownership.

I could see it being a major problem in the Championship, for example, though. Presumably far less scrutiny on ownership and lower valuations + shot of getting into the premiership.

Actually, super interesting, I did some googling:

It hit on a few things I mentioned in the other thread:

3 It is achieved through a variety of means, notably manipulating club accounts by inflating income from ticket sales, buying empty spectator seats, inventing a fake revenue stream and engaging in the developing of property near stadiums. The international market for transferring players can also be a vehicle for money-laundering, as the overvaluation of a player is similar to the moneylaundering protocol of inflating invoices for goods and services. 4


Nice to know my money laudering radar isn't too off target!


One thing that is risky/will be interesting - the new UK UWO (Unexplained Wealth Orders) - they can issue them on any assets owned in the UK and basically take ownership of the asset, putting a burden of proof on the asset's owner to justify the source of their wealth. It is mainly used on politically sensitive people, but at least one case in the UK was used to confiscate the assets of a criminal gang linked money launderer.

It's not pervasive yet, only a very small number of cases, but it is a major tool in the arsenal - I almost wouldnt be surprised if, at some point, they strted throwing them out there and shifting burden of proof onto owners in a more systemtaic way.
 
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pupivn

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It’s not only money laundering, it can be tax dodging, moving money out of CCP’s sight (in case of China) … it happens in other sports as well

 

.h.

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Reading your article now, but the first half of it is a complete misunderstanding of what amortisation is. It also is a zero sum game - you report depreciation of the value of the player, but then if you trade them at a profit that's a real profit that lands onto the book and is appropriately taxable.

I am a bit surprised, though, that the corporate losses can be written off against personal tax. Will need to look into that in more detail. Not possible in the UK.


I cant really be bothered to go through the rest of the article in detail, but there seems like there are some oddities to how tax law is treated in the US for these things. AFAIK in Italy and the UK you cant offset personal income tax against a company you own (barring very small sole trader companies in the UK), and amortisation schedules are a legitimate thing. Quite righly. If you buy Lukaku for 100m and he retires at the club, you've "depreciated" 100m. If you buy Lukaku for 100m, and then sell him 3 years later, you've depreciated 20m a season for 3 years then booked a 60m profit. And you'd get taxed as such.


This is also true for companies btw - you're inevitably better off investing into the company than taking profit. Infact, it's specifically designed that way, to drive growth. I think in the UK now certain types of investments get 130% tax relief on their valuation, so the government will basically give YOU money to invest into the business.
 
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pupivn

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You’re right but want to add another element here, different country different law, there’re international laws. Zhang and Suning might have different goals that we cannot apply same logic from other country. They also have internal politics issue as well.
 
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.h.

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Yeah, that's fair - though of course italian clubs are subject to italian law ultimately. But yes, I agree. I dont plan to read up on Chinese tax law.
 

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Good idea not reading up on Chinese law the last one I read went something like this: " All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."
 

brehme1989

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Money laundering is just the means of legitimizing illicit funds. Illicit funds can also be undeclared revenue, aka tax evasion. Legal framework in various countries is now adopting a way to pretty much merge the two.

It doesn't have to be a product of illicit practice. It just most commonly is.
 

Serie B

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Hey guys, I'm pretty excited about this guy Lukaku joining Chelsea. Got a great narrative, rejoining Chelsea after signing as a teen. He's a real winner. Guided some unknown Italian team to the serie A title last year too.

What do you guys think?
 

eduzee

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It's interesting how Kaku will perform at Chelsea. Especially in CL and big domestic fixtures.
 

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Hey guys, I'm pretty excited about this guy Lukaku joining Chelsea. Got a great narrative, rejoining Chelsea after signing as a teen. He's a real winner. Guided some unknown Italian team to the serie A title last year too.

What do you guys think?
Icardi is way better :whistle:
 
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Ethor

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The season starts tomorrow with Brentford vs Arsenal @ 3:00pm. The usual suspects will be in the hunt, with some pundits saying West Ham and Leicester City may surprise. Who cares? My Canaries are back in the Premier League, C'mon you Yellows and stay up this time!
 

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I believe this is going to be Klopp last season at Liverpool. All their rivals have strengthened while they have only signed Konate, they have yet to sign a Wijnaldum replacement and they haven't improved their attack that looked out of ideas last season. Of course there's still time left in the transfer market but things aren't looking good for them and as things stand i expect them to get left behind the competition.
 

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I believe this is going to be Klopp last season at Liverpool. All their rivals have strengthened while they have only signed Konate, they have yet to sign a Wijnaldum replacement and they haven't improved their attack that looked out of ideas last season. Of course there's still time left in the transfer market but things aren't looking good for them and as things stand i expect them to get left behind the competition.

Didn't he already make comments in the past suggesting he would want to take some kind of sabbatical after 2022? I think he spent about seven years at Dortmund, and this is his seventh year at Liverpool...would by symmetrical if nothing else.
 

Ethor

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I believe this is going to be Klopp last season at Liverpool. All their rivals have strengthened while they have only signed Konate, they have yet to sign a Wijnaldum replacement and they haven't improved their attack that looked out of ideas last season. Of course there's still time left in the transfer market but things aren't looking good for them and as things stand i expect them to get left behind the competition.
Agree, I think this Reds squad has run its course. Expect it's a Chelsea, City and ManU race this year. Norwich plays Liverpool this Saturday @12:30pm EDST. Then the Canaries play City!
 
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