Forwards Rumours Topic

[The Count of Anti-Milan]

Hamed, what you are asking from Vieri, not even Maradona in his prime could do.

Get real Milos, 'great' strikers do what I ask of Vieri, let me give you an example. TresGay and Sheva score important goals when the team is playing bad. For example, Juve were owned by Milan, and yet TresGay found a way to score an impossible goal that more or less gave Juve the scudetto.

And Sheva, how many goals does he score against us when we are playing well? And against other teams in important games.

This what I mean. Who can say that Vieri does the same? Again, no disrespect for him, but it's unfair to glorify him the way it's being done.

He doesn´t score game-winning goals? Hah. You want me to find all the game-winning goals he has scored? [Edit: Nah, i wont bother anymore ´cause it´s pointless to argue about a player who is a legend on his own when you said such things as "overall I am disappointed on Vieri in his Inter adventure"

I didn't mean game-winning goals per se. I meant goals in difficult moments, and goals that give you championships. I go back to the example of TresGay goal against Milan. As much as I hate him, TresGay is a great striker, he score goals in very important times.

Are you saying lying is your point?

Not really ´cause i checked the statistics and if Inter.it is correct then both of those accusations are untrue. Do you actually check the facts before you claim such things? :wallbang:
:

I just pulled those stats from my head. Let me remember: Adriano scored three times last year against Juve in the Coppa Italia, and once this year. So that's four in total. None from PK's, and all from open play.

And now that I actually went and checked, Vieri has four goals against Juve. As I said, one was actually Toldo's goal, and two were PK's. So that's one goals from open play, the one he scored last season.

But that's not my point anyway, Vieri has 4 goals against Juve in 5 seasons, while Adriano has 4 in 2. I couldn't check how many games Vieri actually played against Juve because I know he missed some with injuries.

And also after checking, I found out about a goal I totally forgot in 2000 against Milan. So he has 2 goals against Milan, and so does Martins. I don't know the number of games each played against Milan, but I'm sure Vieri has more.

I feel like adding a disclaimer or something at the end. I don't hate Vieri, I love him. But let's be objective and realistic. There is a difference between scoring against Brescia, Como etc. and against Milan and Juve. And great strikers are those who score goal out of nothing when the team needs it most.

Hamed, you are way off the mark yet again. Milan only had ball posession but very few chances and that was only a result of Juve taking the lead. Up to Treseguet's goal it was an even game.

Shevchenko only scores when Milan either completely outplays Inter or is at best equal - FACT! The worst derbies of recent times that Milan played were: the ones in Serie A this season: Shevchenko - no goals. Milan - Inter 0-1 of 2001/2002, Shevchenko 0 goals. Milan - Inter 1-2 of 1999/2000, Shecchenko scores froma penalty in the 94th minute, after not having seen the ball for the entire game.

 

[Hammoudi]

Milos, I was giving Sheva as an example, not the standard. To pin-point it, let's take the goal he scored in that cancelled game. This is so typical of him, he scores goals that take the life out of the other team. And compare his goals against us to those Vieri has against Milan, it's not even close.

About TresGay, it's the same thing. We weren't always manhandled in games or something, but we played worse than the big opponents in the old days. We were like Juve were against Milan, playing worse than our strong opponent. And BAM, TresGay scores! Same thing against Real in the second CL games, he scores cracker goals in dire times.

 

[The Count of Anti-Milan]

Milos, I was giving Sheva as an example, not the standard. To pin-point it, let's take the goal he scored in that cancelled game. This is so typical of him, he scores goals that take the life out of the other team. And compare his goals against us to those Vieri has against Milan, it's not even close.

About TresGay, it's the same thing. We weren't always manhandled in games or something, but we played worse than the big opponents in the old days. We were like Juve were against Milan, playing worse than our strong opponent. And BAM, TresGay scores! Same thing against Real in the second CL games, he scores cracker goals in dire times.

That game was more or less even and due to the result of the first leg a Milan goal from anyone would take the life out of Inter.

As for Milan - Juve, wrong yet again. The only reason Milan had more ball posession then Juve was the score. Up to Trez's goal and even half-time they were even-stevens. Not so with Cuper's Inter, which was pegged back to it's own half from the first minute.

 

[Hammoudi]

Cuper coached Vieri in two of his five seasons, and Vieri had his best season under Cuper.

I don't want to disect all the specific examples, but whom would you really prefer to have as your CF's in an important match? I'd rather have Sheva or TresGay.

 

[Kato]

lol give Hamed a break, he's entitled to his opinion :fero: ! anyways, criticising a player doesn't in any way mean that u hate them.

And to be true, Vieri didn't exactly have the best start to the season this year, did he?

IMO, nowadays Vieri is a good striker, but he isn't a great striker, yes he scores goals, but he is in no way at his best now..

And don't start telling me I hate Vieri, because I don't, in fact he is one of my favourite players :stuckup:

 

[Hammoudi]

lol give Hamed a break, he's entitled to his opinion :fero: ! anyways, criticising a player doesn't in any way mean that u hate them.

This is nothing, I used to have fierce debates on Vieri with Tommi and Jake in the old InterForums days. I was a newbie back then, and those two were tossing me around :scared:

But I agree with you. I don't hate Vieri, I love him, I really do. I'm just trying to point out the fact that Vieri didn't justify the huge salaries we paid him.

It's not his fault, but ours. And I appreciate his 120 goals. However, I'd rather have a player that only scored 50 goals if most of those are against Milan/Juve and in decisive moments.

 

[Tommi]

Hamed, if you will....I´ll ask you again and i´d like you to give me a better answer than you did last time.

Also, like i said before. Don´t you think Vieri would had scored more against our defence [as much as Sheva and Trez for example] if he had played in Milan or in Juventus?

I´m pretty sure he would´ve.

Your answer was

Adriano has more goals in an Inter shirt against Juve than Vieri. Martins has more goals than Vieri against Milan. See my point?

Which was somewhat false as you stated earlier.

Anywayz, you know very well that before Mancini came we didn´t really play football if you know what i mean. These stats are from last season ->

Sunday, October 24 2004 20:30 MILAN-INTER 0-0 Adriano 90 minutes Vieri 79 minutes Martins 11 minutes
Sunday, November 28 2004 20:30 INTER-JUVENTUS 2-2 Vieri & Adriano scored Adriano 90 minutes Vieri 22 minutes Martins 90 minutes
Sunday, February 27 2005 20:30 INTER-MILAN 0-1 Adriano 10 minutes Vieri 90 minutes Martins 90 minutes
Wednesday, April 20 2005 20:30 JUVENTUS-INTER 0-1 Cruz scored Adriano didn´t play Vieri 14 minutes Martins 90 minutes

Adriano 1 goal / 190 minutes
Vieri 1 goal / 205 minutes
Martins No goal / 281 minutes

Pretty equal if you ask me.

Technically speaking, Adriano has a 48% change of scoring a goal...While impressively (Or not depending if you like the man?) Vieri has a 57% (291, 167) Roberto Baggio has 44% (488, 216) Shevshitenko 56% (269,151) The ever so great *spit* Totti *spit* 34% (282, 98) Del boy 38% (282, 109) :twisted: Did I mention Vieri, 57%? 57%, Vieri??

MoH, do these stats again, but instead of comparing total goals, compare goals against 'big' teams.

So, if a player scores few more against big teams and overall goal-ratio is lower then that´s better? Isn´t every goal very important to every team or have i missed something?

I didn't mean game-winning goals per se. I meant goals in difficult moments, and goals that give you championships. I go back to the example of TresGay goal against Milan. As much as I hate him, TresGay is a great striker, he score goals in very important times.

None wins the championship all alone.

There is a difference between scoring against Brescia, Como etc. and against Milan and Juve. And great strikers are those who score goal out of nothing when the team needs it most.

Sure sure. In this season we finally had a team and the comparision between Adriano-Vieri-Martins was pretty equal dont you think.

And I appreciate his 120 goals. However, I'd rather have a player that only scored 50 goals if most of those are against Milan/Juve and in decisive moments.

You actually prefer a striker who scores 50 goals against teams like Juve/Milan or/and is decisive than a player who scores 120 goals overall?

I´m speechless... :|

 

[The Count of Anti-Milan]

Cuper coached Vieri in two of his five seasons, and Vieri had his best season under Cuper.

I don't want to disect all the specific examples, but whom would you really prefer to have as your CF's in an important match? I'd rather have Sheva or TresGay.

Put either of those two in Cuper's hoofball tactics and they wouldn't score against any stronger team either.

 

[Pravesh]

If you guys are planning to extend this discussion, then there's a thread on Vieri in Player's Thread, I guess.

Nah that smiley doesn't mean that I am joking, neither was that.

 

[MoH]

MoH, do these stats again, but instead of comparing total goals, compare goals against 'big' teams. If Vieri isn't last in that category, I will do anything!

Are you sure? It's not going to be pretty :angel: (Allah ye'nik )

Starting from 1995 and onwards, I’m going to count their entire Serie A careers, including their previous clubs (It won’t be fair for Adriano, seeing as he’s only been here for two years…Three if you can’t his brief spell, but I don’t)

The so-called Big 4/Recent Rivals
Inter
Roma
Juve
Milan

Contenders
Representing Inter
Adriano (I would have liked to do Recoba, but thanks to Trezeguet, I added Adriano instead...)
Vieri

Representing Roma
Totti
Montella

Representing Juve
Del boy
Trezeguet

Representing Milan
Sheva
Inzaghi

Results

Inter
Adriano – 6 Goals (2001-2005)

• Inter – 0
• Roma – 1
• Juve – 3
• Milan 2

Vieri– 14 Goals (1995-1996 and then 1998-2005) By the way, I just realized something, Vieri has continuously scored against Roma each season since joining the Nerazzuri, and regretfully he wasn’t unleashed against them this season!

• Inter – 0
• Roma – 8
• Juve – 4
• Milan 2

Roma
Totti – 8 Goals (1995-2005)

• Inter – 4
• Roma – 0
• Juve – 2
• Milan 2

Montella– 15 Goals (1995-2005)

• Inter – 7
• Roma – 2 (He’s an ex-Sampdoria player)
• Juve – 2
• Milan 4

Juve
Del boy – 13 Goals (1995-2005)

• Inter – 4
• Roma – 6
• Juve - 0
• Milan 3

Trezeguet– 4 Goals (2000-2005)

• Inter - 2
• Roma - 0
• Juve - 0
• Milan 2

Milan
Sheva – 18 Goals (1999-2005)

• Inter – 6
• Roma – 7
• Juve – 5
• Milan 0

Inzaghi – 15 Goals (1995-2005)

• Inter - 6
• Roma - 3
• Juve - 1
• Milan 5

1. Sheva – 18 Goals :finger: (I told you it won’t be pretty)
2. Montella/Inzaghi – 15 Goals (Both surprised me, especially Inzaghi! Unbelievable...)
3. Vieri – 14 Goals :intersca: (I'm telling you he's a living legend)
4. Del boy – 13 Goals
5. Totti – 8 Goals :wth: (I honestly expected more…)
6. Adriano – 6 Goals :kiss:
7. Trezeguet – 4 Goals :dielaugh: (******* hilarious!!!)

 

[Hammoudi]

Hamed, if you will....I´ll ask you again and i´d like you to give me a better answer than you did last time.

Also, like i said before. Don´t you think Vieri would had scored more against our defence [as much as Sheva and Trez for example] if he had played in Milan or in Juventus?

I´m pretty sure he would´ve.

Pravesh, you are right, this will be the last time I talk about this subject in this thread. If the others are interested we can take it to the Vieri thread or to the backyard :fero:

Sorry for missing that question Tommi, I forgot to answer it. But you have a point, we never really had a great playmaker, and our play was mumbo-jumbo. That's a great point in fact, maybe either player would do like Vieri or worse in the circumstances.

Similarly, it's the same thing for Martins/Adriano. They didn't play in those dark days when we had no identity, a fairer comparison would be if they played more with Cuper/Lippi/Zac/etc. I should've taken the context and circumstances into question.

Finally, what I meant by championship goals isn't ones that you score and you win something right away. Rather, I meant those decisive goals that give you an edge or take you out of trouble.

I hate to mention the two scums again, but they score when it matters most. There are others that score these type of goals (Montella in 00/01, Eto'o last season etc. etc.)

 

[Hammoudi]

I just read MoH's stats, so this should be my last post on this thread, or maybe my last ever (depeding on what MoH asks of me :scared: )

But seriously, and I swear to God, I didn't mean Roma when I said the big teams. I was constantly talkin about Milan, Juve and us I guess.

Anyway, I lose anyway because TresGay finishes last with 4 goals, and Vieri is second-bottom with 6 goals. So MoH, pick your punishment :depress: And thanks for the effort Bro :star:

I will have to go out in a roar though! Just see those stats of Vieri against those teams and comapre them with Sheva's, Inzaghi's, DelBoy's and even Totti, you see what I am talking about.

Why the heck did I choose TreGay? I even hate him more now :fero: :fero: :fero:

[Edit] And I just checked the earlier post, and MoH didn't have TresGay in his list. He had Adriano, Vieri, Baggio, DelBoy, Sheva, and Totti. So technically, Vieri is last in that list!

We'll need a judge for this one!

 

[Jake]

Fuck it, I had enought of this BS. I just want to say that every freaking goal counts and to be honest Serie A has always been decided in the away games against little teams.

If Vieri hasn't scored that much against Milan and Juve then you need to look at how much we've actually managed to scored against them as a team. We've been pretty lousy against them if you ask me. Last season is probably the best benchmark and Oba, Bobo and Adriano we're pretty equal against Milan and Juve. I rest my case.

 

[Pravesh]

c'mmon guys, calm down before you wake up !!

And if you want to discuss on Vieri like this; just do it in the other thread. You guys are totally changing this thread. So help me and you guys know how.

 

[MoH]

I just read MoH's stats, so this should be my last post on this thread, or maybe my last ever (depeding on what MoH asks of me :scared: )

But seriously, and I swear to God, I didn't mean Roma when I said the big teams. I was constantly talkin about Milan, Juve and us I guess.

Anyway, I lose anyway because TresGay finishes last with 4 goals, and Vieri is second-bottom with 6 goals. So MoH, pick your punishment :depress: And thanks for the effort Bro :star:

I will have to go out in a roar though! Just see those stats of Vieri against those teams and comapre them with Sheva's, Inzaghi's, DelBoy's and even Totti, you see what I am talking about.

Why the heck did I choose TreGay? I even hate him more now :fero: :fero: :fero:

[Edit] And I just checked the earlier post, and MoH didn't have TresGay in his list. He had Adriano, Vieri, Baggio, DelBoy, Sheva, and Totti. So technically, Vieri is last in that list!

We'll need a judge for this one!

Technically last? That would be Adriano, with 5 goals...

Trust me, the last thing I had in mind was turning you into a slave I'm not that evil, not to a fellow Arab and Inter fan :flirt: (masar ila-5aar, mohelwa miniii....bas samihnaaa )

Anywhoooo, Roma is a big club (Not a lot of trophies) but still a big player in Serie, I should have included Lazio and Parma, but seeing as they both fell from grace during the last two seasons, I voted otherwise.

Confederations Cup here I come!

 

[Pulsar36]

I agree with Jake/Tommi here. I get absolutely furious when people say Vieri is not a great player, he carried our team on a defensive platform for years. He did it all himself. The least we can do is help him through his tough times. Moreover, if anyone knows anything, they would know that the one type of striker that doesn't get exponentially worse with age is the box striker, like Vieri/Shearer/Zola.
Thank you.

 

[CafeCordoba]

Okay, this is forward transfer rumours -topic. So guys shut the f*ck up already and move the Vieri-discussion to Vieri-topic.

 

[Ari]

Recoba is the only forward I got pretty neutral opinion. Vieri is keep for me, but Il Jardinero goes must keep section. :star:


:star: Julio Cruz :star:
:intersca:
:skull: Gobbi butcher :skull:

 

[Pulsar36]

Okay, this is forward transfer rumours -topic. So guys shut the f*ck up already and move the Vieri-discussion to Vieri-topic.

Fine. :fero: I'll shut the fuk up. You happy now? :fero:

 

[Tommi]

Gosh! I just wanted to say one more thing and then shut up.

This was forward rumor thread and Vieri is rumored to leave. All we talked about Vieri and Vieri as a player. That´s not so off-topic if you ask me. Now i´m sure this great great conversation will die...

Let´s at least try to continue our great conversation in Vieri thread.