Inter - Torino (9 Mar 14)

[Wings]

Did you forget to read my whole post?

I read and replied to your whole post. You only addressed the actual quotes (and not just the circumstances surrounding them) in this last post. But fine, I'll accept this

But that doesn't change the fact that your ad hominem attacks are pretty ironic.

Considering we're playing better at home and the atmosphere has improved, I'd say there's a good chance he's gotten over this issue. You should try it, too.

I don't understand this argument at all. Usually a pattern is established after a behavior occurs more than once. WM only "blamed the fans" once, after a curva protest, so I'm not sure your analogies are on point here.

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Again, you're talking about results (plural), despite the fact that he only mentioned the atmosphere after a single match. In the 6 weeks leading up to match we drew Chievo at home and beat Milan at home. So which results exactly was he "blaming on the fans"?

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If he isn't saying it to the press, who gives a shit what he thinks? You worried he's losing sleep at night because he's pissed at the fans for booing the squad? Or you think he goes into the locker room at half time and apologizes to the team for the poor atmosphere?

He gave one interview where he called out the fans for not doing their part. He hasn't mentioned it since. It's over. Part of Inter's storied history. Time for everyone to move on.

Don't see why it's time for everyone to move on, when Mazzarri apologists are the ones bringing up his argument that fans are to blame for poor results. Considering he hasn't said anything to retract the statement, it's still fair game imo. We judge players based on actions they did a couple of seasons ago, I don't see why the same standards shouldn't be held for Mazzarri.

And the more important thing isn't whether or not Mazzarri blames one result or two results or his entire fucking career on home fans. The important thing is he that even made such a comment at all, which says a lot about his character.

So he said 'we may very well play better on the road'... that quote doesn't change anything, in my mind. Just an ironic way of making the same point. Perhaps overstating his case, a bit, but I guess we're all guilty of that, from time to time, eh?

Well, we are playing better at home, but that's not the issue, is it? And the atmosphere at San Siro has gotten better, but that's not the issue either, is it? Wait... what was the issue again?

He says we play better away than home because of our fans' lack of support. Not much ambiguity there.

The protests were related to the mismanagement of that transfer, and he cited those two relatively inexperienced players as guys that might have difficulty in a hostile home environment. You really think those are "two different issues"? Cmon brah.

Absolutely. The Twitter outrage was directed at our management. Not our players. Do you think our fans are so dense that they can't distinguish between Alvarez and Branca? Do you think Alvarez himself is so stupid that he can't distinguish between criticism of Branca and criticism of him? Do you honestly think that our fans were blaming Alvarez and Jonathan for our directors wanting Vucinic?

Our directors were criticized in one specific incident for Vucinic-Guarin. Our players were separately criticized for performing poorly. When Mazzarri blames the fans, it's because of the latter.

All week the players sensed scepticism from the fans and media.

 

[Jerry]

Do you honestly think when Inter players hear boos at San Siro while they're on the ball or being introduced that they can simply compartmentalize it and say, "oh, that's a protest against the management, not me, so I'll ignore it and not let it affect my play"?

The point is, all that fan turmoil was a major distraction that week. He acknowledged it that week. But Forza Mazzarri crew still wanna act like WM blames every poor result on the fans. This simply isn't true. He barely did it once, and that was a fairly unique situation.

 

[Wings]

Read Mazzarri's own comments. He himself makes the distinction between criticism of the management and the players. And he says that criticism of the players (separate from that of the management) is leading to poor results.

In the end, I'm not arguing about whether or not the players are affected but whether Mazzarri thinks they are.

Two things happening in the same week does not make it the same thing.

 

[Inter2010]

ALL I WILL SAY ....FORZA INTER.

 

[NeonBlade]

Regarding the constant FIF complainers: We're in need of 3 points every game, and every game you manage to come here and bitch about how we are not "entertaining". Stop listening to Nirvana; grunge is dead. Today we dominated and had a good game. Our goal is not to entertain, but to get points from the remaining games.

This entire posy is invalidated, because we do NOT need three points every game. What we need is a long standing game plan that can be viable for the future. Only a fool would want this team anywhere near Europe, with this coach we simply are not prepared. If we somehow get into the Champions League qualifier it goes to show the poor quality of the League more than anything we actually did.

 

[militoscores]

another good solid display

we need new wing backs. nagatomo and jonathon make it there party trick to get into dangerous situations and then turn backwards or make easy pass rather than try to influence a game.

icardi offered nothing ,milito starting again please next game!

kovacic and hernanes on pitch at same time was nice to see from technical aspect, kovacic needs to use that speed burst more. guarin ddnt do great but always looks to get on the ball.

cambiasso or hernanes my MOTM. honourable mention to ranocchia too.

 

[Jerry]

Read Mazzarri's own comments. He himself makes the distinction between criticism of the management and the players. And he says that criticism of the players (separate from that of the management) is leading to poor results.

In the end, I'm not arguing about whether or not the players are affected but whether Mazzarri thinks they are.

Two things happening in the same week does not make it the same thing.

WM commented on the atmosphere, generally. He absolutely did not distinguish between protests against the players and management in terms of effect on the players. You're seeing something that isn't there.

Here are his full quotes on the atmosphere against Catania, just in case anyone actually gives a shit at this point (link):

"All week the players sensed scepticism from the fans and media. These players are not accustomed to certain pressures and felt the lack of enthusiasm in the stands, as it almost felt as if we were playing in an empty stadium.

Unfortunately, the breakthrough incident to score didn’t arrive and the lads did better when the supporters were riled up a bit by going close to a goal. The atmosphere makes a difference, as anyone who played football will know.

Our heads are not clear and therefore we don’t make the right decisions and feel the pressure when making mistakes.

I thought the team played in a more relaxed manner in Genoa, as they seemed tense at San Siro. With the atmosphere being what it is at the moment, the squad may well play better away from home. There’s no point denying that.

Jonathan and Ricky Alvarez, for example, are not accustomed to being protagonists at this level and playing with this sort of pressure. Inter made decisions over the last two years and it will take time to gain experience.

We could’ve done with a moment of magic. With two or three counter-attacks we even risked losing the game.

If there is going to be a protest, we request it after the final whistle, because the players need the warmth from the stands during the 90 minutes."

 

[militoscores]

stop talking about boring stuff. geeks

 

[b4h4mooth]

Just finish watching second half. That link between Hernanes and Kova was so sexy. Hernanes MOM to me. The team looks different with him on the pitch.

 

[Jerry]

Just finish watching second half. That link between Hernanes and Kova was so sexy. Hernanes MOM to me. The team looks different with him on the pitch.

Cambiasso prob gets it with the assist, but both gave very strong performances. If Guarin brings his A-game, that midfield trio is pretty solid IMO.

 

[militoscores]

Just finish watching second half. That link between Hernanes and Kova was so sexy. Hernanes MOM to me. The team looks different with him on the pitch.

big time. we look like we have a threat

 

[yoszee]

Kovacic hidden message with that link up game with Hernanes?

"Please dont let me play with random no brainer that dont understand how i play!"

Sent from Post Office using HTCONE

 

[Wings]

WM commented on the atmosphere, generally. He absolutely did not distinguish between protests against the players and management in terms of effect on the players. You're seeing something that isn't there.

Here are his full quotes on the atmosphere against Catania, just in case anyone actually gives a shit at this point (link):

Normally I would've left this by now, but I just can't emphasize how ironic it is that Mr. Accountability and Intellectual Honesty yet again omitted some quotes.

(note the world 'only,' as in the only thing pertaining to Vucinic-Guarin. Clearly he's making a separate set of comments)

“I will only say the fans were not the only reason, as there were other evaluations at the last minute that led to this decision. That’s what the directors told me.

“The club knows what I asked for in the transfer window. I hope they can do those things, but if they don’t then we’ll continue working with this group.”

 

[Jerry]

Normally I would've left this by now, but I just can't emphasize how ironic it is that Mr. Accountability and Intellectual Honesty yet again omitted some quotes.

(note the world 'only,' as in the only thing pertaining to Vucinic-Guarin. Clearly he's making a separate set of comments)

“I will only say the fans were not the only reason, as there were other evaluations at the last minute that led to this decision. That’s what the directors told me.

WM is saying that the directors told him that the fans outside Inter HQ were not the only reason the Vucinic swap failed. Nothing to do with the fans inside the stadium. Deal had fallen through by time Caglari kicked off. (Link)

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Quote in context from Football-Italia (link):

The protests were also affected by this week’s chaotic collapse of the Fredy Guarin-Mirko Vucinic exchange with Juventus. Mazzarri has generally refused to comment, but did reveal the fan revolt was not the only reason that move was called off.

“I will only say the fans were not the only reason, as there were other evaluations at the last minute that led to this decision. That’s what the directors told me.

“The club knows what I asked for in the transfer window. I hope they can do those things, but if they don’t then we’ll continue working with this group.” did reveal the fan revolt was not the only reason that move was called off.

 

[Glass box]

It wasn't bad. Inter controlled the game well, and showed stability in defense. The attack is still anemic, and I think that Hernanes needs just a little more to start shooting in the goal frame, so Inter finally would have a long-range shooter this season. From the players, Rolando was the best, Handanovic was also focused and didn't let some potential threats evolving into conceding a goal. Icardi was not very good, unfortunately. Guarin can do a lot better. He lost too many balls. He is a good dribbler, but he likes to go over the top with that. It would be more useful if he passes the ball after a dribbling. He needs to be more of a team player, rather than individual. Palacio not the best, but still scored and deserves credit. He needs a little rest. Kovacic-Hernanes :notbad: duo in the finish, that was actually something good to see after some time in Inter. Also, I like that pressure from Inter players when Torino had the ball in their half. Overall, a slight improvement comparing to the games from the start of 2014, but I want to see how will Inter play against Verona next week, that's a tough opponent. And also, D'Ambrosio needs to play, it's about time to see him in the team from the start.

 

[Jerry]

Handanovic was also focused and didn't let some potential threats evolving into conceding a goal.

Can't remember the last time I saw Hands get post-match props around here. Bout time, for crying out loud.

Excluding the loss to Rube, we've conceded 6 goals in past 11 matches.

 

[Nyall]

Can't remember the last time I saw Hands get post-match props around here. Bout time, for crying out loud.

Excluding the loss to Rube, we've conceded 6 goals in past 11 matches.

so 9 goals in 12..

 

[Jerry]

so 9 goals in 12..

About a goal per game for the season :notbad:

 

[Nyall]

About a goal per game for the season :notbad:

yup now if only we weren't so awful in everything else.

 

[Glass box]

so 9 goals in 12..

8 goals in 11. But, the derby against Milan was last year, so let's say that in 2014 so far Inter conceded 8 goals in 10 games in Serie A. Need to score more, on the other hand.