Liverpool - Inter (19 Feb 08)

irishwhisper

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well you seem a nice lad ! the atmosphere was muted against barnsley due to the ongoing protests, you know nothing of lpool or what happened to bring about the heysel disaster,which i was unfortunate enuf to be at, why dont you tell the truth that you are abitter and twisted man utd fan?

Haha a bitter and twisted Man Utd fan??? I despise Man Utd with a passion but still nowhere near as much as Liverpool. And sure Man Utd always beat yas nowadays anyway! I am a Shamrock Rovers and Lazio supporter, follow Rovers everywhere and have been to see Lazio many times aswell so I''m a proper fan!

So were murderpool fans not responsible for what happened at Heysel then?? Believe me when I say yous are despised everywhere apart from stupid barstoolers! The atmosphere is usually crap at Anfield, yous only up it for the big games and even then still nowhere near Greek/Italian/German standards! yas have crap fans and if there is any justice in football Internazionale will knock you pondlife out of Europe! At least then children wont have match tickets stolen from their hands and also imagine stealing flags from your fellow fans. Yous really are the lowest of the low, absolute dirtbags
 

scutzon

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I think both Lukair and Azzkikr agreed on the point about our midfield not having enough quality. Players like Cambiasso and Zanetti are quality assets to any team, but they do not possess the required passing and ball control abilities to effectively pass the ball around comfortably in the offensive half.

Regarding the pressure of away games being different in Milan derbies and CL matches, I think although it might be true to a certain extent, there is no reason our professional and experienced players should be so much more affected by Anfield's crowd than San Siro's Milanistis. They need to cope with the pressure, one way or the other, it's their job. Sure, if you throw in youngsters into these kind of matches then they'd piss themselves silly watching thousand of Liverpudlians screaming in their faces. But these are international players, playing for their country in other countries, with similar foreign fans booing and screaming at you trying to make you lose concentration. So there is no reason the players should be playing badly because it's Anfield.
 

kylan05

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Just finished watching the match (recorded). Yes, finally had a courage to see it knowing what to expect & what it'll put me through :D

A few conclusions:

1. Imperfect referee's decision for the red card, did costs us a heap. Second yellow card was valid, the first one wasn't.

2. Another imperfect referee's call about Vieira's handball. Indeed it was. So I guess that made it even.

3. Torres is a NedGayVed junior.

4. Vieira was horrible. He had at least 3 clear chances via Counter Attack, in which he totally blew them. He's so SLOOOWWW & the passings were made blindly.

5. I hate Carragher I could punch him in the face right now.

6. On the 26th minutes (I think) Mascherano tried to own Javier, which was to no avail. &the commentator said something about him trying to outshine Javier in Argentine NT, I could fall off my chair.

7. Ibra was outstanding, while Cruz was invisible. Cruz my love u need to straighten up.

8. JC made a few good saves, esp. on the 2nd half. The 1st goal was inevitable. Had the ball not deflected on Maicon, JC has got the ground space covered. 2nd goal, he did jump to the right direction, the arm just wasn't long enough. But it doesn't matter coz at the end goals conceeded were goals conceeded.

Overall, the way we approached the game was wrong. 4-4-2 just won't do. Had we not down to 10 men, would've we won? Not sure. We could hardly get possession, much less scoring goal. But had we not down to 10 men and Ivan didn't need to be streched out, there's a much better chance it would have ended 0-0.
 
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rockball

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Good observations kylan...
From what I saw -
1. Torres the biatch...it was very clear that diving when going past Matrix was very much planned.

2. Vieira did blow up those counterattack chances but then they were possible only when Vieira came on.

3. Mascherano did have a good game. I remember an instance when Zanetti ran around 3-4 players and was almost there near the opponent's box but then as usual he ran out of ideas and gave away the ball. Mascherano on this occasion followed him all the way and his pressure paid off.

4. Ibra wasn't outstanding but there was nothing he could do really.

5. On the goals, JC reacted slow on the second one and I guess he was put off by the defender(Burdisso maybe) diving to save it....else he would and should have saved it.
 

Luka

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You want me to tell you why a certain manager does other things in serie a games when we face them, who would i know? But i dont see how that in any way is comparable to how a top teams from different countries plays against us in the CL. Its common knowlegde that italian teams arent exactly known for being teams who keeps the pressure up high on the pitch, but rather only in their own half, its been like that forever in italy and both milan and inter plays this way.

I dont really understand what you are disagreeing about lukair. The fact that our midfielders are way to similar in strengh/weaknesses and arent technical enough? I think thats quiet evident, even when looking at our serie A performances.

Most of our goals come through either 1. individual brilliance or 2. coincidental goals earned by superior physique from our squad. Not all goals, but most of them are. How many goals have we made the last two season, from brilliant combination play between the midfielders and the forwards? Close to none, how many class assists comes from our midfielders? Close to none. Looking at our game, does any of our midfielders ever manage to pull of something unexpected or draw alot of attention to them to make free space? No we dont. The midfield is build too defensively, they arent good enough going forward and at the same time not technical or fast enough to distribute the ball effectively under constant pressure either.

Thats fine for serie most of the time, because their ability is still better than 95% of the teams we face and our physique is alot better. But in the CL, its obviously not enough. You cant 4 players in midfield who all choke under pressure, lacks pace, passing ability and ability to move ball forward with the team and then expect do well in the CL, its simply too easy for the opposition to get the ball from such a midfield.
Azz, I think we are not understanding each other enough.

First, let me ask you, if we would have the full squad available with Jimenez, Figo, Vieira at his best, playing with 4-3-1-2 you would still stick to your theory our midfield is still not able to play, how you named it "quick" play?

Take a look at this vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qxRJpLF_bc&feature=related

Minute 1:45

Goal of Stankovic was preceded with an incredible quick play, with 4 one touch passes. You can't get faster than that.

Minute 3:30

How fast was that?

For me there is a big difference what kind of players you need for 4-3-1-2, 4-4-2 and all other formations. With 4-3-1-2, or 4-3-2-1, the midfield is mostly responsible for hard working in the midfield, fighting for the ball, and linking the defense and attack. Probably only Milan has a privalage to have a Pirlo over there, who can be a great playmaker over there, but they at the same time, play with 2 highly deffensive midfilders in likes of Gattuso and Ambrossini. But that's not that important, from what I know, you need hard workers there, in the first place, as there is only 3 players instead of 4. Put there 3 Decos, and the team will be fu**ed up. But... this deficit is compensated with an extra man behind the strikers who can do many things, if he is capable enough to do them.

I still remember how we played with Figo behind the strikers, and we were playing great, having lots of chances, and playing good football. Our indolence came only recently, it wasn't like that all the time. Obviously playing with Maxwell, Stankovic, Cambiasso and Zanetti in straight line you are destined to fail, and playing more forward, would make not big difference. But if we would play with 4-3-1-2, with Stankovic behind the strikers it would make a lot of a difference. Even the only fact that Stankovic was the only one who could play there, and he didn't is suggesting we were meant to play deffensively. Almost everybody was saying 4-4-2 is just an error or misunderstanding before the game, as everybody was awaiting different formation. As soon I saw it I knew what is coming.

Mancio could put Chivu, Cambiasso, Zanetti, following with Stankovic in front of them, and Suazo and Ibra in the attack, and that would make hell of a difference.

As I said before, I agree that we don't have players skilled enough to play the way Barcelona, Real Madrid or Manchaster are playing, but nobody will make me believe our players are unable to pose some threat to an oppnent, even if they are playing away.

At the start of the season we played great, and everybody was on high with the praise especially to Ibrahimovic, who was playing great. And I still remember it, because it was back then when he was receiving a lot of balls at his feet, when we played a lot different than we are doing now, many said they are happy with how Ibrahimovic was involved in the building up process, and comparing it to the way we're playing since Christmas is clearly an indication that we are playing bad, differently, and I was adressing that mater many times. That fact has been exposed even clearer in this game with Liverpool, but it cannot be made standard by which our players are evaluated.

Azz, as I understand for you the only reason, we lost this game, and why we were so pinned down by the Liverpool side, was because our midfielders were not techniqual enough. But, Barnsley was deffending too, yet they were able to create some chances to score, and they did score, while we didn't do anything, and I'm far to believing they have some hidden diamonds in their team, that nobody have seen yet.

I can't accept, and I won't that our team, is so weak, that we were incapable of doing anything against the Liverpool, and at the same time, we are winning the Serie A like we didn't see for a while. These 2 facts, are by deffinition in conflict. I would believe it if we were the Serie B champions, but not Serie A champions, and by this far.
 

Azzkikr

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First, let me ask you, if we would have the full squad available with Jimenez, Figo, Vieira at his best, playing with 4-3-1-2 you would still stick to your theory our midfield is still not able to play, how you named it "quick" play?

Indeed i do, figo doesnt matter, he is a million years old, he is slow as a turtle. He can still make decisive passes, but to who? There is no speed in the midfield, no one who is capable to really running free and into position. Perhaps if mancini fielded both figo and jiminez at the same time, but we all know that will never happen as mancini wants the midfield as offensively crippled as position:rolleyes:

And i dont really understand how a stankovic goal from 5 meters outside the box proves anything, thats hardly any a goal as a result of great and fast combination, thats a goal as a result of a good and lucky long shot. And if you watch the game, milan dont really put pressure on us, but allows us to go forward, which is a completely different thing, than what always happens in europe = constant pressure on the ballholder = our midfielders choke.

As I said before, I agree that we don't have players skilled enough to play the way Barcelona, Real Madrid or Manchaster are playing, but nobody will make me believe our players are unable to pose some threat to an oppnent, even if they are playing away.

Well 4 years of constant choking away in europe sadly tells a different story.

At the start of the season we played great, and everybody was on high with the praise especially to Ibrahimovic, who was playing great. And I still remember it, because it was back then when he was receiving a lot of balls at his feet, when we played a lot different than we are doing now, many said they are happy with how Ibrahimovic was involved in the building up process, and comparing it to the way we're playing since Christmas is clearly an indication that we are playing bad, differently, and I was adressing that mater many times. That fact has been exposed even clearer in this game with Liverpool, but it cannot be made standard by which our players are evaluated.

Yea we were playing well in serie a and our home games in the CL, but we got hammered by fener away, lucky in moscow away and liverpool was just pathetic as both agree. The only time we played well away in the CL was against PSV, and that was funny enough with a reserve team.

Ive said it a million times, and ill say it again, just because it works in serie a, doesnt mean it will work in europe. The styles are different, the pressure isnt so high on the ball holder, especially not in your own half. We have failed to addapt to this and buy the right players to change it, despite 4 years of failure. Mancini has stuck with what works in Serie A, thats fine, i just dont want comments from him and moratti that the CL is the primary target, when the club does nothing to change the obvious flaws that we have seen season after season in the CL, instead they have build on to this serie a domination team.

Azz, as I understand for you the only reason, we lost this game, and why we were so pinned down by the Liverpool side, was because our midfielders were not techniqual enough. But, Barnsley was deffending too, yet they were able to create some chances to score, and they did score, while we didn't do anything, and I'm far to believing they have some hidden diamonds in their team, that nobody have seen yet.

Who knows, perhaps barnsleys midfield is just better balanced than ours:howler:. I must confess i dont know shit about them, but i doubt they play with 3 dm's and a cm's who all arent very good on the ball. It doesnt take much to reverse pressure, it just a few players who has the vision and ballcontrol to make them run in vain, it will easen pressure very fast.

I can't accept, and I won't that our team, is so weak, that we were incapable of doing anything against the Liverpool, and at the same time, we are winning the Serie A like we didn't see for a while. These 2 facts, are by deffinition in conflict. I would believe it if we were the Serie B champions, but not Serie A champions, and by this far.

Well better believe it. You cant say its a mere coincidence that we choke every year in the knockoutstages in europe in away games the minute we are put on pressure all over the pitch. The CL isnt Serie A, like ive said a million times, you cant go out with the same approach against empoli away as against Liverpool away, but year after after mancini keep doing exactly that. He is too confident, and thinks he doesnt have to change anything regardless if we play in the CL or against some mickey mouse club in Serie A.

The midfield simply isnt balanced enough for the CL, its simple as that. With so many players who all share the same weaknesses in offensive incapabilities its bound to go wrong in knockoutstages, and thats exactly what it does year after year.
 

Luka

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Indeed i do, figo doesnt matter, he is a million years old, he is slow as a turtle.
Sure, I would prefer Messi, but we have to go with the players we have. Figo playing behind the strikers is able to hold up ball, exchange a few passes, find a teammate on the other side of the field etc. We saw a difference today. He is slow, true, but if you play behind the strikers it's not as important as a winger position. Figo was playing since the beginning of the campaign on the wing, and he was really poor, but that's not his fault Mancini is fielding him over there.

And i dont really understand how a stankovic goal from 5 meters outside the box proves anything, thats hardly any a goal as a result of great and fast combination, thats a goal as a result of a good and lucky long shot.
I was refering to the build up that was followed by this goal. That goal was set up by a very quick play involving 4 one touch passes.

At one point we were famous for playing those quick 1 touch plays. We were playing slow, and than in an instance we switched gears and we playd high tempo game. We were doing it, and they could forget it over one night.

Well 4 years of constant choking away in europe sadly tells a different story.
But we do, play well at home. Why is that? Why at home we play well, we should easily beat Valencia and Villareal by a margin of min 1 goal, and you can't deny it, nobody can. If our midfielders are bad, we shouldn't be able to play well away, and also at home. But it's not like that. Why is that?

For me, those 4 years of playing bad away, are not telling me our midfield is unable to play decent in Europe. It tells me that Mancini chickens out at the important 2 leg knockout stages. He is too afraid when it comes to the away games, he goes for the save bet, but it backfires every time.

Yea we were playing well in serie a and our home games in the CL, but we got hammered by fener away, lucky in moscow away and liverpool was just pathetic as both agree. The only time we played well away in the CL was against PSV, and that was funny enough with a reserve team.
PSV was a game for nothing, that's why Mancini was able to set up to play a normal game. As for the rest it's the same answer as from the previous quote.

Ive said it a million times, and ill say it again, just because it works in serie a, doesnt mean it will work in europe. The styles are different, the pressure isnt so high on the ball holder, especially not in your own half. We have failed to addapt to this and buy the right players to change it, despite 4 years of failure. Mancini has stuck with what works in Serie A, thats fine, i just dont want comments from him and moratti that the CL is the primary target, when the club does nothing to change the obvious flaws that we have seen season after season in the CL, instead they have build on to this serie a domination team.
I am watching the Milan game against Palermo. Milan is playing very high, often using 3, 4 players to close down on an opponent half, and when in attack, their deffensive line is at the half line. I agree the game in Italy is different, and usualy teams are not closing down very high on the pitch, but Milan is doing it today, Sampdoria did it also against us today from time to time.

Who knows, perhaps barnsleys midfield is just better balanced than ours:howler:.
You honastly doesn't believe that, and I don't either. Midlesbrough were able to score 2 goals at anfield yesterday, and what it says about our team? They have a better midfield than ours too ?

And Azz, what's the deal with what you're saying in the Mancini thread:

And Handoyo, sure a red card is about the worst thing you can get in such a game, but its doesnt excuse not being able to string 3 consecutive passes together for the rest of the game or constantly loosing the ball right after conquering it or not getting a single shot on goal. Mancini's approach before the red was wrong and after the red it was horibly because if history has shown anything it is that Inter cant defend an entire game without letting goals in, especially with 10 men. I can safely say ive never seen any other team be so crippled about a red card that they couldnt get the ball over the middle with the team following just a few times...

No one is questioning the selection of players, just the ultra defensive approach he obviously instructed them to have both before and after the card.

Handoyo, no one expects us to win the CL, but we expect to be up there, actually being a contender and up there in the semi's~ instead of being the laughing stock of the competetion year after year.

Its the fact that we play absolutely horible year after year in the knockoutstages and constantly choke to teams who on paper arent as good as us.

Its obvious that there is something wrong with either mancini's approach to these games or with the team generaly (or most likely both).

We atleast want good performances, so we can go out with some honor atleast, not choking so much that you dont have a single shot on goal, 10 man or not, its simply pathetic and embarrasing to say the least.

4 years of being a complete joke/failure in europe is inexcusable in my book.

Sure but he did score, we did get trashed for the entire game, we didnt get a single shot on goal, we didnt do anything, we choked like always away in europe. 10 man doesnt excuse such a horible performance.

There is no room for if's and but's in europe, mancini needs to wake up and realise that there isnt room for failure and be sharper tacticaly and realise that you cant approach a CL away game the same way a serie a game.

But considering he hasnt improved CL wise in his 4 years at all, it doesnt look plausible.

Luck has nothing to do with playing like a serie C club away in CL year after year.

You're saying that our midfield is poor, and that's the main reason we suck in Europe. Yet, there are many quotes, saying about Mancini making a mistake with our approach to the team, with him setting us to deffensively, that's completely what I'm saying here.

What's that all about man ?
 

Suneet

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Funny how Azz waits for 1-2 defeats. The CL is the ultimate thing for you, the Scudetti dont count.
 

ataturk5

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Haha a bitter and twisted Man Utd fan??? I despise Man Utd with a passion but still nowhere near as much as Liverpool. And sure Man Utd always beat yas nowadays anyway! I am a Shamrock Rovers and Lazio supporter, follow Rovers everywhere and have been to see Lazio many times aswell so I''m a proper fan!

So were murderpool fans not responsible for what happened at Heysel then?? Believe me when I say yous are despised everywhere apart from stupid barstoolers! The atmosphere is usually crap at Anfield, yous only up it for the big games and even then still nowhere near Greek/Italian/German standards! yas have crap fans and if there is any justice in football Internazionale will knock you pondlife out of Europe! At least then children wont have match tickets stolen from their hands and also imagine stealing flags from your fellow fans. Yous really are the lowest of the low, absolute dirtbags
yes they played a massive part u ****ing halfwit, but how many times have fans ran away towards a wall and the wall has stayed in 1 piece?(as they generally do!)they died bcoz the wall collapsed. the year before in rome for the final at romas patch lpool kids and women were slashed and stabbed so at the first sign of trouble from juve there was an overreaction,were not blameless but if walls collapsed every time there was a rush of fans there would have been thousands dead all over the world, no? worry about your poxy little lge and not the big boys, btw anfield is world famous,fact! so get to **** , i wish i had an overcoat as thick as you
 

Azzkikr

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You're saying that our midfield is poor, and that's the main reason we suck in Europe. Yet, there are many quotes, saying about Mancini making a mistake with our approach to the team, with him setting us to deffensively, that's completely what I'm saying here.

What's that all about man ?

I feel like im repeating myself here. You have to read what i write in context.

Mancini made this team, its primary attribute is a strong defense. Too defensive for my tastem, but thats not relevant.

Obviously what im refering too in midfield is the result of mancini's poor choice in the players he has brought in, especially since the midfield lacking has been obvious for a long time. We have one of the worst midfields in the last 16.

When i write that midfield is the reason we choke in a game, its simply just a reference to what went wrong in a specific game, and then the analasis on why the midfield choked yet again. Mancini has very little influence on how the players performs in a given match, regardless of how he told them to play. Just because mancini is too defensive doesnt defend all our midfielder choking under pressure and failing to hold on to the ball.

Mancini created this team, but hasnt made the proper regulations to our midfield to balance it out, because he for some reason believes in the defensive approach with strengh, hardwork and being defensively sound making up for the complete lack of speed, technique and vision. Hes ideology of a team competetive for both for the league and the CL is obviously very flawed and considering that he is naturaly overall to blame for everything.
 

Hasan

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Liverpool doesn't have better team from us and they are good. It's not problem in players it's problem in that we don't have smooth game any more and our players looks tired( Cambiasso, Ibrahimovic), Maicon and Vieira are in poor form and Materazzi is awfull. Samuel and Cordoba are big blows an all that costs.

Liverpool woned with players like Smicer, Traore, Bišćan and Baroš so... I am sure that we can win it too, we just need to be lucky and be on the right place in the right time.
 

szasza02

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Another great diver is growing up. The successor of Nedved and Inzaghi
I'd love to see Scarface killing this diving c*nt in the place of frank lopez
'you......a man who ain't got his word,is a cockroach'
 

Luka

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Ok, Azz. So, all you're saying is that Mancini made a mistake not in this particular game, but before the season, when putting up the team, especialy the midfield ?

Mancini made a wrong decisions in his vision of the team before the season is that correct? So he made a mistake in general, for the whole season, not just in this 1 game?
 

catanha

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there's one thing that will remain constant to do with Inter and the Champions League. well actually 3.

1- whenever a team presses Inter, Inter will choke and not know how to handle it.

2- the coach will make decisions which baffle everyone but Inter fans.

3- the Inter finals will forever be deluded and think they were still the better team.

oh and a 4th.

4- there will always be an excuse.
 

Adriano@10

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Theres is not much to say but that i was very dissappointed.
Ofcourse marco should not have been sent of but also when we were 11 vs 11 we were playing like shit it seemed as if ou re players were afraid and after two passes pool had the bal again. The only good thing about the match was our defence wich was immense especially cordoba was outstanding there fore ou re midfield was inexssistant and i was hugley dissapointet especially by deki who was rearly seen.


Anyway i know that we can still turn this shit over i know its gonna be hard but we can make it.

Ohh and how was viera shit ?? When he came on we played a lot better he alteast held the mid together.
 

rockball

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3- the Inter finals will forever be deluded and think they were still the better team.

4- there will always be an excuse.

Bullseye
 
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