Martín Satriano

Should Satriano stay at Inter?


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Puma

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Let's be honest, if he was going to amount to anything, he would have flashed and we would have seen it by now. The only time we hear about Satriano is when it is time to find him a new club at the beginning of each new season. We should sell him outright and move on.
 
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.h.

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Let's be honest, if he was going to amount to anything, we would have flashed and we would have seen it by now. The only time we hear about Satriano is when it is time to find him a new club at the bginning of each new season. We should sell him outright and move on.
whatever potential he had was squandered by not debuting until he was aged 21. I dont think there is a single player at Inter who made their professional debut at 20/21. Most of our guys (all but Gosens, basically) are regulars by 18/19.
 

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Don't start with that crap @.h. again. :D

What do you mean by regular? Dimarco was not a regular at that age.

It doesn't make any sense to sell Satriano when he scored 2 goals last season. There's not enough value in him. Better to loan out and hope he hits a good season, then we can try to monetize.
 

.h.

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Don't start with that crap @.h. again. :D

What do you mean by regular? Dimarco was not a regular at that age.

It doesn't make any sense to sell Satriano when he scored 2 goals last season. There's not enough value in him. Better to loan out and hope he hits a good season, then we can try to monetize.
At least playing? Satriano was playing U18 football when he was 20....

And, its a simple fact. Only Gosens of the entire current first team wasnt playing first team football aged 20 - Dimarco as a "not regular" had played 30 professional games by then, half in Serie A. [edit - Actually I'm wrong, Gosens was a first team squad player aged 19]

Satriano aged 20? maybe 4 games at best, but probably less.

Data doesnt lie my friend. The biggest impact on "making it" is basically number of minutes in the first team before you hit 20 years old.



You can call it "crap" all you want, but its a basic analytics from football.
 

CafeCordoba

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Yes, I call it crap.
 

.h.

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Yes, I call it crap.
okay. You're welcome to disagree with statistics if you want, no one's gonna make you believe in them, but the stats are stats. They give you good insight whether you believe them or not :D And the stats say every single one of our first team was playing first team football aged 19 :D

I cant speak for the quality of data analysis at Inter, but I can promise you, many clubs globally are acutely aware of that fact.

I wonder if @pier has completed his youth data analysis yet, would love to see the data summed up over a decade or so of youth


anyway in the context of satriano, buy it or not, but he's also been crap the two seasons he's had out on loan. Like Colidio, lets just fucking offload and take whatever money we can, rather than clinging onto a dream desperately hoping we turn shit into gold [UNLESS of course our scouts or Inzaghi think they've seen something in him they want to keep]
 
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brehme1989

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You call it "statistics" and "analytics" but that's just your own metrics that you came up with. Arguably that's all statistics and analytics are, but at least they're peer reviewed to a degree :D
 

CafeCordoba

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okay. You're welcome to disagree with statistics if you want, no one's gonna make you believe in them, but the stats are stats. They give you good insight whether you believe them or not :D And the stats say every single one of our first team was playing first team football aged 19 :D

I cant speak for the quality of data analysis at Inter, but I can promise you, many clubs globally are acutely aware of that fact.

I wonder if @pier has completed his youth data analysis yet, would love to see the data summed up over a decade or so of youth


anyway in the context of satriano, buy it or not, but he's also been crap the two seasons he's had out on loan. Like Colidio, lets just fucking offload and take whatever money we can, rather than clinging onto a dream desperately hoping we turn shit into gold [UNLESS of course our scouts or Inzaghi think they've seen something in him they want to keep]
My guess is they seem something in him which can be polished so that we can make MORE money than what we could make now. I guess is we wouldn't make even 5m€ for Satriano in this market.
 

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My guess is they seem something in him which can be polished so that we can make MORE money than what we could make now. I guess is we wouldn't make even 5m€ for Satriano in this market.
Sure, and if they want to make that bet, I'm fine with it as a concept. In practise, though, these are probably some of the same people who splashed the cash on Salcedo, Colidio, etc, so I dont really trust them that much. :D
 

Ethor

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His contract expires 30 June 2027. Transfermarkt value 7M. Kinda fooled me that one pre-season, and they kept him till January iirc, a few years back. Probably another loan or a trade fodder, is my guess.
 

Corrode

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At least playing? Satriano was playing U18 football when he was 20....

And, its a simple fact. Only Gosens of the entire current first team wasnt playing first team football aged 20 - Dimarco as a "not regular" had played 30 professional games by then, half in Serie A. [edit - Actually I'm wrong, Gosens was a first team squad player aged 19]

Satriano aged 20? maybe 4 games at best, but probably less.

Data doesnt lie my friend. The biggest impact on "making it" is basically number of minutes in the first team before you hit 20 years old.



You can call it "crap" all you want, but its a basic analytics from football.
How much competitive games those Handanovic, Cordaz, Acerbi, D'Ambrosio, Darmian, Dumfries, Gagliardini, Bellanova, Mhikitaryan, Gosens, Dalbert, Dzeko and Correa before 21? i'm curious to know. i'm doubt they even knew the gaming of the pitch before 22 yo.
 
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.h.

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How much competitive games those Handanovic, Cordaz, Acerbi, D'Ambrosio, Darmian, Dumfries, Gagliardini, Bellanova, Mhikitaryan, Gosens, Dalbert, Dzeko and Correa before 21? i'm curious to know. i'm doubt they even knew the gaming of the pitch before 22 yo.
I'l pick the stats based on the season they turned 21, if thats okay?

Cordaz - very little, but he's not exactly Inter quality anyway, he's here to fill a quotas role
Handanovic - already starting for Slovenia, 5 starts in Serie A + Coppa Italia, transfermarkt doesnt really go back this far, but wikipedia says he had played/started about 28 games by the time he turned 21 (approximately)
Acerbi had started at least 22 games by the end of the season in which he turned 21 - probably more, I cant really be bothered checking the loans of the seasons before he turned 21, according to wikipedia he played some games there but its mostly driven by the 08/09 season when he turned 21
Dambro looks like he had about 40 professional games under his belt by that time
Darmian was about the same figure - mostly on loan to Padova, but quite a few in Serie A with Palermo and some in Milan
Dumfries turning 21, just on wikipedia, had played about 72 professional games
Gags? When he turned 21 in 2015, he'd finished the season with a total of 35 Serie B games under his belt
Bellanova - when he turned 21 in May 2021, he completed that season with a total of 33 (by the looks of it) games under his belt
Mkhi - by 2010, he'd played something like 124 pro games across Armenia and Ukraine
Gosens? depends how you want to count it as a July birthday, but its either 53 pro games or 91 pro games
Dalbert turned 21 in 2014 Sept, so by the end of 2014-2015, he was up to 45 professional games (also not a great example of a player at Inter's level, though)
I dunno why you pick Dzeko, he's been playing for years - when he was 21 in 2007, he'd finish the season with 90 pro games (and 21 goals) under his belt
Correa - in 2015 (Aug 1994 baby so you decide how it falls), he'd played 64 Argentina Primera games, scoring 5 goals.



What's super interesting, imho, is the spread of levels these guys are playing at - and as you can see, most of them are already playing quite regularly by the time they turn 21. It's not quite true of Acerbi, Dambro or Darmian, but for the rest of them they mostly had. Gags is famously a late developer, and also clearly not up to Inter standards.

Satriano, by comparison, a total of 20 games, all from that specific season he turned 21.


The single most important thing for developing youth is top level game time when they're 17/18/19/20. Thats why I talk so much about having tracks and trajectories - if they arent getting the game time when they're 18/19/20, they just get left behind. And thats why, for me, I dont mind loaning the kids to Serie B or even building out an U23 team like Juve - we just need to get them "first team" game time. I know everyone's view of youth development is kinda like Wayne Rooney - out of nowhere some 17 year old is amazing, starts playing very regularly - OR on the other end of the spectrum like an Ian Wright, raw talent alone means from nowhere, even aged 21, they can break through into the top flight without any prior experience

sadly those are the unicorn cases. As with almost anything in life, its years of hard work, building upon successes (and failures) that get you to the summit. The kids who can really just 'make it' like Donna are unbelievably rare. But at the same time, if you dont have the foundation to build upon [of regular game time and experience], you will struggle to make it
 
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.h.

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FWIW over the last 10 years my opinion on this has shifted a bit. I used to push very heavily for whatever (even little) Serie A exposure they could get. Instead, now, for me its just about minutes. Get as many minutes as you can, whatever level. As long as you keep "building" ontop of that level from one season to the next, its fine
 

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About this data analytics thing. I believe in it, but mostly when looking for players who you don't have resources to scout extensively.

I don't believe the data analytics MAINLY is a valid approach when deciding which of your OWN players has the potential or are good enough. Those players have already been scouted and something has been seen in them why they were bought. At that point it's the scouting in the loan period which becomes crucial. Is the potential still there? Can these guys improve and in what kind of environment? After all, every player is unique, they respond differently in different environments, coaches, challenges etc.

Looking at some age stats to categorize individuals to some general model (you gotta be this and this old and you need to have done this and this by this age) gives indeed only some general data but the details gets missed. Do these guys get to correct places to develop? Were they in correct places before? This data lacks that aspect completely.

To me, your model @.h. is just super simplification of a complex thing, based on past data which might be even 100% wrong approach (should we look how we've done before, use that data and continue with the same thing we've been doing?)

Btw, why is Gagliardini not up to Inter standards? He won the Scudetto and played over 1000 minutes in that season.
 

.h.

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About this data analytics thing. I believe in it, but mostly when looking for players who you don't have resources to scout extensively.

I don't believe the data analytics MAINLY is a valid approach when deciding which of your OWN players has the potential or are good enough. Those players have already been scouted and something has been seen in them why they were bought. At that point it's the scouting in the loan period which becomes crucial. Is the potential still there? Can these guys improve and in what kind of environment? After all, every player is unique, they respond differently in different environments, coaches, challenges etc.

Looking at some age stats to categorize individuals to some general model (you gotta be this and this old and you need to have done this and this by this age) gives indeed only some general data but the details gets missed. Do these guys get to correct places to develop? Were they in correct places before? This data lacks that aspect completely.

To me, your model @.h. is just super simplification of a complex thing, based on past data which might be even 100% wrong approach (should we look how we've done before, use that data and continue with the same thing we've been doing?)

Btw, why is Gagliardini not up to Inter standards? He won the Scudetto and played over 1000 minutes in that season.
Gagliardini's not up to inter standards because (a) we've just released him in what should be the prime of his career, (b) he's never really been a regular first team starter for us except perhaps 2017-2018? (c) we're all glad as fuck he's leaving, and many of us wanted him to leave years ago :D

re analytics.... The thing is, if we as a club actually had a track record of developing successes, I'd put far more stock into our scouts. But we don't - we keep crap back far longer than we should do, and we make really dumb decisions (look at Lorenzo Tassi going way back, or more recently, Colidio, salcedo, etc. Plenty of examples)


And, yes, I agree the model is a broadbrush thing - like I said, its meant to be guiderails for whether a player is succeeding or not. Everyone should be evaluated on an individual level, and as a concept, we should be able to veto "model" projections based on that

At the same time, in many ways, it doesnt really matter if they were in the wrong place - esp if its 2 seasons in a row. Missing out 2 seasons worth of development means you're basically not going to hit it, unless you're one of those unicorn players who can do it DESPITE the challenges.


I get your point about "doing what we've always done" - but the data above is not subject to that survivorship bias. I'm not looking at the past track record of our youth academy. I'm looking at the people who play for Inter first team, and the tracks they've taken to get here.
 

IM21

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Di Marzio says Satriano must give his ok to join Dinamo.
 

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would be good thing, probably CL or EL games
 

Gane

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It seems he rejected move to Dinamo and wants to go to France.
 
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