Netherlands - Russia (QF) (21 Jun 08)

[Cro Nerazzurro]

Brillant perforamnce by Russian, but like hamed said, not taking anything away from Russia, but Holand defence was nowhere, and there was no help from midfield.

I predicted after 2 games in groups that Holland wont go far, semis top.
And there you go, finally someone attacked them well and Holland is off.

Great game*****

 

[shahz_nerazzurri]

I just laugh at those who think Hiddink is better than Mou. Must be blinded by attacking football. He is a great manager better than Lippi but not close to Mou.

And I really laugh at those, who think Mourinho is better than Hiddink. They must be blinded by English media hype. Or by the fact, that Hiddink cant give them statemetns like "I am sorry I am arrogant, but I am the best manager in the world, now go and have orgasm to what I just said".

Hiddink is used to working in real pressure situations, with crap teams like S.Korea, Australia. He took PSV to CL semifinals in 2005 (he won the CL with PSV in 88), where they were extremely unlucky to crash out on away goals to Bilan. Hiddink didnt go to uncle Abrahimovic every time he had a problem.

Also as good as arshavin has looked in these two games you need to actually see him for a few league games straight before you can decide if he is the real deal.

Arshavin led Zenit St. Petersburg to their first Premier league title. In a league dominated by the Moscow teams, who have by far the most money, this was a remarkable achievement. Most importantly he led them to the Uefa cup, and was dynamite in 4-1 thrashing of Munich.

"He became the manager at Spain's Real Madrid in the summer of 1998, replacing Jupp Heynckes, but bad league form saw him get sacked after only half a season in January 1999."

That was 10 years ago. He has become much sharper now.


Oh man, i hope he is available next summer, after we fire mourinho.

 

[Luka]

That was 10 years ago. He has become much sharper now.

Agreed it was some time ago, but it DID happen. So if someone could have said wherever he goes there is succes, can't say it after this spell. I'm not saying he won't, but he did flop there. Maybe(and I say MAYBE) it is because Real is one of the greatest teams in the world, and sometimes not everyone can coach the greatest, but he is good with good teams(but not great). Like Del Nerri, who was great with Chievo and than went to Roma(after Porto ?? ) and didn't do anything. It's example on not such a scale, but I think it shows my point.

I hope Hiddink will go to some great club, because he was great with PSV, and he was great with all NT that he coached since Sevilla time, but we have great, great man, and noone is more perfect than him for us, for our situation, for this environment.

Oh man, i hope he is available next summer, after we fire mourinho.

Dream on buddy

ps. Hiddink was my third choice after Spaletti, so I do rate him very, very high. But Joses achievments in last 5 years are just sick and out of this world, and we should be proud we have him.

 

[NimAraya]

Oh man, i hope he is available next summer, after we fire mourinho.

Shahz, you always make a smile on my face! I hope too...

And to Luka, He's not GOD! Now go and find every little fail he had to justify your freak reasons.

 

[Luka]

I didn't say he is God. I just said he is the best there is right now for Inter. That's a difference.

 

[Ziyad]

He is great at taking small teams to the furthest point in there history.Its more in short tournaments though than long championships.

 

[NimAraya]

I didn't say he is God. I just said he is the best there is right now for Inter. That's a difference.

I meant Hiddink is not God. You can't expect someone be successful in every thing. As your Josie in his last season with chelski even couldn't beat Rosenburg in his home!

 

[Luka]

I meant Hiddink is not God. You can't expect someone be successful in every thing. As your Josie in his last season with chelski even couldn't beat Rosenburg in his home!

True he isn't God.

But tell me why Hiddink is so better than Jose(and in what), that you would be happy to replace Jose next year with Hiddink ?

 

[Stefan]

Mourinho 12 major titles vs Guus Hiddink 12 major titles in their careers. Ones career has been a lot shorter than the other one. I rest my case.

 

[NimAraya]

True he isn't God.

But tell me why Hiddink is so better than Jose(and in what), that you would be happy to replace Jose next year with Hiddink ?

I tried to be a little Mean Man here! Anyway I think Moroniho can resist here for maximum 2 years. I still rate Hiddink better than Moroniho because he was succeed almost everywhere he's gone in these years. Just look at what he has done to a helpless team like Russia.

 

[Adam]

Mourinho 12 major titles vs Guus Hiddink 12 major titles in their careers. Ones career has been a lot shorter than the other one. I rest my case.

Where did you get Mourinho's 12 major titles? I count 8, that is if you count English league cups. And what kind of an argument is that anyway? How about you take a look at what Hiddink does to every single team he coaches. He makes them achieve result while making them play the game like it was supposed to be played. He's been doing that for 20 years.

Mourinho does the same resultwise but the difference is his teams are boring as fuck to watch, and he hasn't achieved half of what Hiddink has.

Leading South-Korea to semifinal in WC, Australia to QF, and Russia to semifinal in EC, and making them play great is equal to winning the Champions league 3 times, or at least not far from it.

What's even more impressive is he's done all that within six years. Mourinho is great and maybe he will achieve what Hiddink has someday but claiming they have achieved the same is ridiculous, to say the least.

 

[shahz_nerazzurri]

Only an idiot would put FA cup, Community shield and the other crap they play in England as a major title. I mean FFS community shield vs taking S.Korea to World cup semis. :dielaugh:

Also it wont take a genius to realise that an International manger doesnt get as much chance to win a trophy like a domestic manager. You can only win a trophy once every two years. Not to mention when you care coaching the likes of Austrlia or S.Korea, you wont win anything. While a manager of a domestic league can win uhh like 4-5 trophies in a year.

But tell me why Hiddink is so better than Jose(and in what), that you would be happy to replace Jose next year with Hiddink ?

1. He is better.

2. He is tactically much more astute than Mouirnho.

3. He plays great football, rather than the crap Mourinho plays.

4. He doenst go to uncle Abrahimovic for money after every 2 games.

5. He knows how to handle pressure. Mourinho only knows act tough in pressure less situations. There never really is pressure from the fans or media, when you are manager of a football club in England.

6. He has been successful with every country/club he has coached in the last 8 years.

7. He has performed miracles like taking S.korea to the WC semis or taking Australia to the World cup, and then to the round of 16, and now with Russia. Miracles Mourinho cant even dream of.

8. He has more experience coaching.

Disadvantages.

1. He doesnt give out orgasmic quotes, like I am the best in the world, pls wank over me.

2. He hasnt coached England or in England, which is the true test of a man's character. Fu_ck the world cup and shit.

3. He play better football than Mourinho, but Mourinho thanks to backing of english media is mroe marketable. And will probably get a few more dumb fu*cks to watch our game.

4..... thats that.

Hiddink might be on par with Lippi, his football style is much better than Lippi. But he is miles ahead of Mourinho.

 

[Stefan]

Where did you get Mourinho's 12 major titles? I count 8, that is if you count English league cups. And what kind of an argument is that anyway? How about you take a look at what Hiddink does to every single team he coaches. He makes them achieve result while making them play the game like it was supposed to be played. He's been doing that for 20 years.

Mourinho does the same resultwise but the difference is his teams are boring as fuck to watch, and he hasn't achieved half of what Hiddink has.

Leading South-Korea to semifinal in WC, Australia to QF, and Russia to semifinal in EC, and making them play great is equal to winning the Champions league 3 times, or at least not far from it.

What's even more impressive is he's done all that within six years. Mourinho is great and maybe he will achieve what Hiddink has someday but claiming they have achieved the same is ridiculous, to say the least.

Boring is a matter of opinion. I find Jose teams stimulating to watch. I could care less whether the side entertains or not all that matters is getting results , as long as you don't cheat.


Sources:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/José_Mourinho#Honours
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guus_Hiddink#Club_Honours

Hiddinks honours:

• Eredivisie:

1986/1987 1987/1988 1988/1989 2002/2003 2004/2005 2005/2006

• KNVB Cup:

1987/1988 1988/1989 1989/1990 2004/2005

• European Cup:

1987/1988
Real Madrid

• Intercontinental Cup:

1998



Jose's honours:

• With F.C. Porto:
  • Portuguese Championships (2): 2002/03; 2003/04
  • SuperCup Cândido de Oliveira: 2003
  • Cup of Portugal: 2002/03
  • UEFA Cup: 2002/03
  • UEFA Champions League: 2003/04
• With Chelsea FC:
  • FA Premier League (2): 2004/05; 2005/06
  • Football League Cup (2): 2004/05, 2006/07
  • FA Cup: 2007
  • FA Community Shield: 2005

 

[Stefan]

Only an idiot would put FA cup, Community shield and the other crap they play in England as a major title. I mean FFS community shield vs taking S.Korea to World cup semis. :dielaugh:

Also it wont take a genius to realise that an International manger doesnt get as much chance to win a trophy like a domestic manager. You can only win a trophy once every two years. Not to mention when you care coaching the likes of Austrlia or S.Korea, you wont win anything. While a manager of a domestic league can win uhh like 4-5 trophies in a year.



1. He is better.

2. He is tactically much more astute than Mouirnho.

3. He plays great football, rather than the crap Mourinho plays.

4. He doenst go to uncle Abrahimovic for money after every 2 games.

5. He knows how to handle pressure. Mourinho only knows act tough in pressure less situations. There never really is pressure from the fans or media, when you are manager of a football club in England.

6. He has been successful with every country/club he has coached in the last 8 years.

7. He has performed miracles like taking S.korea to the WC semis or taking Australia to the World cup, and then to the round of 16, and now with Russia. Miracles Mourinho cant even dream of.

8. He has more experience coaching.

Disadvantages.

1. He doesnt give out orgasmic quotes, like I am the best in the world, pls wank over me.

2. He hasnt coached England or in England, which is the true test of a man's character. Fu_ck the world cup and shit.

3. He play better football than Mourinho, but Mourinho thanks to backing of english media is mroe marketable. And will probably get a few more dumb fu*cks to watch our game.

4..... thats that.

Hiddink might be on par with Lippi, his football style is much better than Lippi. But he is miles ahead of Mourinho.

I included Guus's world club cup with real madrid as well.

Please explain how Mou can't dream of achieving that. If he wanted to I am sure he could. They just couldn't afford him and as he said before only old men manage international teams.

 

[Adam]

Boring is a matter of opinion. I find Jose teams stimulating to watch. I could care less whether the side entertains or not all that matters is getting results , as long as you don't cheat.

Stefan, you're smart enough to know that comparing ALL the titles respective managers have won and equating their worth, is a weak, flawed argument so I'll just leave the Hiddink-Mourinho debate at that. What does it matter anyway.

But on the issue of playing entertaining foorball, you're right in saying that all that matters is getting the result. In the end winning is the most important thing and how you got there is less important. But, there is another aspect to it, and that is earning the respect and admiration of the football community, and you won't do that by playing what I, and a majority of the football loving World, call boring football.

Take Greece as an example. They were huge underdogs in the tornament four years ago and they won it by playing something that I would describe best as anti-football. Granted, they played smart and to the best of their abilities but did anyone really call them "the best" or deserved champions? Maybe some did, I certainly didn't. I gave them congrats on the win and concluded that Euro04 has been a disappointing tournament.

Now take Russia as an example. The respect they get is unheard of for an underdog team. Media all over the World are competing in giving Russia the most praise in their headlines. And everywhere I go on forums everyone is starting to cheer for Russia, and that's because they are underdogs who look and play like champions, or at least try. Seriously when I go around town and I hear people talk football, they are all talking about Russia and how good they are. Four years ago all I heard was a lot of "fucking Greece" comments.

They could lose against Spain with 3-0 and still most people & media will give them more respect than they did for Greece who won the whole thing. I think that's saying something about what kind of football Inter should aspire to play, but maybe that's just me.

 

[Hammoudi]

I kind of agree with Stefan, and what Ziyad said was dead-on. You can't extrapolate his form with small NT's without alot of pressure to big clubs in a 40+ games season.

His time with Real wasn't great, but he replaced a coach who was unfairly fired (won the CL then got fired!) So the expectations and the pressure were kind of unfair. But he was mature at that time and had stints in La liga and dutch leagues but he still couldn't handle it.

 

[Luka]

I tried to be a little Mean Man here! Anyway I think Moroniho can resist here for maximum 2 years. I still rate Hiddink better than Moroniho because he was succeed almost everywhere he's gone in these years. Just look at what he has done to a helpless team like Russia.

What about Jose? Didn't he succed wherever he went also?

Leira - 3rd place in Portugal
Porto - Leagues titles, UEFA, CL, Portuguese cups
Cheslea - LEague titles, English cups, twice in semi final of CL

Isn't that the same story? The difference between them is like Stefan said, Jose is coaching on top scene(lets say that is Porto) for just 6 years now. Just 6 years! He is a phenomenon. And only 45 years old.

Where did you get Mourinho's 12 major titles? I count 8, that is if you count English league cups. And what kind of an argument is that anyway? How about you take a look at what Hiddink does to every single team he coaches. He makes them achieve result while making them play the game like it was supposed to be played. He's been doing that for 20 years.

Mourinho does the same resultwise but the difference is his teams are boring as fuck to watch, and he hasn't achieved half of what Hiddink has.

Leading South-Korea to semifinal in WC, Australia to QF, and Russia to semifinal in EC, and making them play great is equal to winning the Champions league 3 times, or at least not far from it.

What's even more impressive is he's done all that within six years. Mourinho is great and maybe he will achieve what Hiddink has someday but claiming they have achieved the same is ridiculous, to say the least.

Like I said, Hiddink was great with NT, he always is, but coaching Korea, Australia(!), Russia. You say they are favourites to win the Cups, like Chelsea, Porto(at home ground) or Inter? People, give me a break.

I would put them at par at best, but no way someone can say Hiddink is better over him.

4. He doenst go to uncle Abrahimovic for money after every 2 games.
5. He knows how to handle pressure. Mourinho only knows act tough in pressure less situations. There never really is pressure from the fans or media, when you are manager of a football club in England.
6. He has been successful with every country/club he has coached in the last 8 years.
7. He has performed miracles like taking S.korea to the WC semis or taking Australia to the World cup, and then to the round of 16, and now with Russia. Miracles Mourinho cant even dream of.

You got to be shitting me Shahz. Really.

How many times people were talking here about the trasfers of Jose at Chelsea. Didn't you miss the part where Jose wanted just 1, 2 players in his last year at chelsea ?! It's all the time the same story. Ballack and Sheva, blah, blah, blah.

Also, I'm sure he wanted players for 30 Milion every 2 weeks at Porto too.

ps. And what does "astute" mean ?

And LOL at the fifth sentence. WTH man ? Yeah, there's never a pressure, when you go to the club, and your first words are "I'm the special one". I'm sure :] The club where Chelsea with Abramovic MUST HAVE SUCCEDED both at national level and international level.

Now I'm sure Korea and Australia media were saying before WC that if Hiddink won't deliever them the cup, he is fired LOL.

And maybe Jose wasn't succesfull with every club he coached either ? And the so called "miracles" ? Leira to go to the third place, and I'm sure Porto is winning CL cups on a daily basis.

I have to talk down of Hiddink, which I didn't want to do, because I rate him high, but comparing Hiddink, to a 45 year old coach, who is a phenomenon if one would see his coaching steps since. I won't ever deny the fact Hiddink is playing one of the best football a man can watch, but in the end what counts is result.

 

[Stefan]

Stefan, you're smart enough to know that comparing ALL the titles respective managers have won and equating their worth, is a weak, flawed argument so I'll just leave the Hiddink-Mourinho debate at that. What does it matter anyway.

But on the issue of playing entertaining foorball, you're right in saying that all that matters is getting the result. In the end winning is the most important thing and how you got there is less important. But, there is another aspect to it, and that is earning the respect and admiration of the football community, and you won't do that by playing what I, and a majority of the football loving World, call boring football.

I couldn't care less what the others say. Besides we are respected today cause of what Herrera and his cattenacio La Grande Inter did.

As long as Inter win I don't care what the rest think. We are not barca or real who need entertaining football. We were build on cattenacio.

I prefer the tactical game of Mou and Capello over the facny move football played by the other managers any day of the week.

 

[NimAraya]

Luka, I know Josie is better than a piece of trash but let's see what he's capable to do in Italia, a very special place for almost everyone in football!

And about Hiddink and resisting on his success in small teams! I donno what the hell is this shit all about?! NT are different from clubs. What do u mean he's successful in just small teams or small N teams?!! PSV, S.Korea, Australia, Russia, Holland 1998...Look at these teams when Hiddink was at the head of them. They are from different part fo the world and u really have to be 'Special' to make them great and Hiddink did it well! I mean Russia that was a real joke in football DESTROYED the best team in Euro2008 Holland. How many teams got played by your special's teams like that?!

 

[Luka]

[...]let's see what he's capable to do in Italia, a very special place for almost everyone in football!

Couldn't agree more with you NimAraya on that one.

As for Hiddink, let me say it again. Hiddink is great coach, HE IS. I rate him higher than Lippi. To me to watch every team he guides, whether it is PSV, or Holland, or Russia, or Korea, and play great offensive football is a joy to watch. He was my third choice after Jose and Spaletti, and that says it all how high I rate him.

IF, we were the fans of Barcelona or Real I would want Hiddink much more than Jose for example. But we have to look at the whole picture here in "Inters frame", not just couple of details. I wrote a lot of stuff why I believe there isn't better coach in the world currently for us than Jose. And I wasn't only focusing myself on tactical aspect or how much he won, because Inter is like Jose said, a special club, and it is a special environment. Mostly a pressure is incredible, and the things italian media are doing to us. Jose is something of a "Buffer" of "FireWall" for club and players in that aspects. He stops most of this talk with him. All the things he says "I'm a special one" and we are the best and all that, is so that the press can focus on what he says, and not put pressure on players, but solely on him.

And one more thing. Many of you know this but anyway... Russia almost missed EURO. They had to win with Israel in the second from last game, where Israel was already out, and they failed to do it. And in last game they had to count on Croatia beating England away, and also they had to win agains Andorra which they barely do(1-0). It's irrelevant right now to the form Russia is presenting now, but still I thought it is worth mentioning that Russia were a little lucky to got into EURO(If England would even draw, they would go to the EURO not Russia).