Piero Ausilio

[qb4ever_2k]

Please, anyone introduce diplomacy and press handling to bandiera please

 

[bandiera]

Please, anyone introduce diplomacy and press handling to bandiera please

how is that relevant? why does that mean he shouldn't be held accountable for saying nonsense and trying to make his work look a lot better than what it is?

btw most of what I said had little to do with his "diplomacy". I brought up his and inter's failures on the topics he discussed.

 

[Ronin]

I'm curious, why is Icardi a shit captain?

 

[varmin]

As always most of statements of yours are only one sided.

"we like zero parameters" - yep, let's just ignore that erkin and banega would demand high as fuck salaries

Where is the problem here?! You pay a bit more money for salary, but save it form the transfer fee. For instance take Banega - coming for free with wage 3 mln/ year for three years . Total loss - 9 mln. Another average midfielder instead - transfer fee - 10 mln. Wage 1.5 mln/ year for three years. Total loss - 14.5 mln. So, as far as i know still in the math 14.5 > 9.

31 mill + 6 in bonuses.... + agent fees + sign on fees as Dario mentioned in another thread. we're talking about doyenhere so that's a guarantee.

Ausilio says that he agreed a deal 27 mln before Milan to step in the negotiations. Considering that Monaco bought him for 20 mln, that 27 wasn't bad. Also don't you remember that we snatched him for less fee than Milan's offer?

"se;f financed": ONLY IN TERMS OF NATURAL CASHFLOWS. "the media is unfair to us because we equaled incoming with outgoing transfers" but at the same time we're losing 140 mill/year and covering our losses with loans from goldman sachs, yeah forgot to mention that

Ausilio's job is related to in/outgoing transfers. And from this aspect his job is well done as he said.

 

[Kazaan]

I like that Mancini chose Icardi. I am not impressed with what type of striker Icardi is turning out to be, but I think he is a solid captain. Zanetti raised the bar too high for fans to accept Icardi, but iirc it was either Icardi or one of Guarin, Rano or Naga? Pass. He's had one weird episode with his current wife. Other than that he plays fairly, never simulates, his team mates love him and after Handa he contributes the most. Probably not as much as another type of striker would, but still more than his mostly mediocre team mates (less mediocre this season though).

Handa is our best player, but he was on the verge of telling us to fuck off and leaving, rightly so, and that disqualifies him.

 

[Adriano@10]

I totally agree with Kazaan Icardi Has been very professional ever since joining us! He seems to be very hard working and also other then the osvaldo episode i think he did not have and problems with any of his team mates. I feel like the whole wanda story fucked up his reputation way to much coz apart from that episode he has been a role professional and as far as i remember he did not let that story affect his preformance neither did it affect the team so why focus that much on it?

 

[bandiera]

Where is the problem here?! You pay a bit more money for salary, but save it form the transfer fee. For instance take Banega - coming for free with wage 3 mln/ year for three years . Total loss - 9 mln. Another average midfielder instead - transfer fee - 10 mln. Wage 1.5 mln/ year for three years. Total loss - 14.5 mln. So, as far as i know still in the math 14.5 > 9.

3 mill a year - after taxes. So more like 5-6 mill before taxes. I also doubt Banega would only sign a 3year contract. So at the very least it's more like 24-25 mill for banega.

Ausilio says that he agreed a deal 27 mln before Milan to step in the negotiations. Considering that Monaco bought him for 20 mln, that 27 wasn't bad. Also don't you remember that we snatched him for less fee than Milan's offer?

what is this logic? agreeing a deal before milan is irrelevant to what we agreed in the end. competing with other teams on the market is a part of football.

more importantly, how is this relevant to what he said and what i said? agent+ sign on fees + bonuses make it around 40 mill. we overpaid. the fact that's what we needed to pay to sign kdog is irrelevant.

Ausilio's job is related to in/outgoing transfers. And from this aspect his job is well done as he said.

how is this relevant to what i said? my entire point is that "aspect" is largely irrelevant when you're losing 100+ mill/year. and on top of that, we matched spending with lots of loans and obligations so it really wasnt worth the same amount as what came in.

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I like that Mancini chose Icardi. I am not impressed with what type of striker Icardi is turning out to be, but I think he is a solid captain. Zanetti raised the bar too high for fans to accept Icardi, but iirc it was either Icardi or one of Guarin, Rano or Naga? Pass. He's had one weird episode with his current wife. Other than that he plays fairly, never simulates, his team mates love him and after Handa he contributes the most. Probably not as much as another type of striker would, but still more than his mostly mediocre team mates (less mediocre this season though).

Handa is our best player, but he was on the verge of telling us to fuck off and leaving, rightly so, and that disqualifies him.

The fact the other options were bad doesn't make Icardi a good captain. The fact he's a professional doesn't make him a good captain. Playing fairly and not simulating also has nothing to do with being a good captain. He isn't a leader. He's 22 FFS. Right now, one of the youngest, if not the worst captain in the history of Milan, Inter, Juve. Without a single doubt, the worst/most meaningless captain in the league. Only at Inter this shit happens.

Anyways, it's like the people at Inter have an inferiority complex. Icardi scores 22 goals for us in a shit season = give him 4 mill/year and the armband. Give Mancini, the "international class coach" 100+ mill and 4 mill/year to save the club. Who cares if Handanovic was going to leave? Not being a leader on or off the field is the only thing that's relevant. And if we even assume that should disqualify Handanovic, then remember that Icardi is the guy that mouthed off the Curva Nord, and signed Wanda as his agent in negotiations who threatened to sign for a club in Madrid if he didn't get the money he wanted.

 

[Kazaan]

The fact the other options were bad doesn't make Icardi a good captain.

It actually does imo Or you suggest we outsource captaincy to Kompany or Ramos? Suitability is determined relative to other players in your team, not to some best, ideal captain we can imagine.

The fact he's a professional doesn't make him a good captain. Playing fairly and not simulating also has nothing to do with being a good captain. He isn't a leader. He's 22 FFS. Right now, one of the youngest, if not the worst captain in the history of Milan, Inter, Juve. Without a single doubt, the worst/most meaningless captain in the league. Only at Inter this shit happens.

Captaincy is a composite competence, so to speak. He has a lot of good characteristics and they all amount to a competent leader. Professional means good role model, he sets a good example. Fair means someone you can respect and whom opponents and refs can respect as well. He almost never simulates, cries or bitches for unjustified bookings. And those who he needs to lead do respect him, and that's the most important thing. Not what we here think, but how they feel about him.

Anyways, it's like the people at Inter have an inferiority complex. Icardi scores 22 goals for us in a shit season = give him 4 mill/year and the armband. Give Mancini, the "international class coach" 100+ mill and 4 mill/year to save the club.

Give credit where it's due. You would rather ignore 22 goals one player in a shitty team scored? His contract reflects our position in the football world. Mancini's position reflects our lack of identity independent of any given coach. Two different things imo.

Who cares if Handanovic was going to leave? Not being a leader on or off the field is the only thing that's relevant. And if we even assume that should disqualify Handanovic, then remember that Icardi is the guy that mouthed off the Curva Nord, and signed Wanda as his agent in negotiations who threatened to sign for a club in Madrid if he didn't get the money he wanted.

Handanovic cares. He can't accept captaincy if he doesn't even know whether he'll stay.

Regarding the incident with Curva Nord, it might not sound convincing in this debate, but I actually agreed with his reaction back then. He ignored his embarrassment after the defeat and faced his fans who traveled to an away game. Would we rather have a captain who runs into the dressing room and ignores them? No. They were disrespectful in a situation where he showed a lot of respect to them.

 

[bandiera]

It actually does imo Or you suggest we outsource captaincy to Kompany or Ramos? Suitability is determined relative to other players in your team, not to some best, ideal captain we can imagine.

Captaincy is a composite competence, so to speak. He has a lot of good characteristics and they all amount to a competent leader. Professional means good role model, he sets a good example. Fair means someone you can respect and whom opponents and refs can respect as well. He almost never simulates, cries or bitches for unjustified bookings. And those who he needs to lead do respect him, and that's the most important thing. Not what we here think, but how they feel about him.

Give credit where it's due. You would rather ignore 22 goals one player in a shitty team scored? His contract reflects our position in the football world. Mancini's position reflects our lack of identity independent of any given coach. Two different things imo.

Best captain we can have is not the same as a good captain. And Icardi isn't the best choice at Inter for that matter. Miranda, JJ, Medel, Handanovic, even Palacio are all easily better picks. If Nagatomo is always starting, I'd give it to Nagatomo ahead of Icardi too. Icardi is without a single doubt the worst captain in Serie A.

Teammates have more respect for a teammate if they don't simulate, cry, or bitch? That's not true at all. Especially in comparison to the most important quality, leadership. As you said, it's composite. I don't see how the squad has respect for a 22 y/o Icardi over, say, Palacio or even Cambiasso who both simulate and cry a lot.

I didn't say he isn't a good player but that has nothing to do with giving him the armband. 4 mill/year is a fucking ridiculous contract for Icardi. It makes him one of the highest paid players in the league. He earns more than everyone at Juventus bar Buffon, Khedira (who both earn the same as him), and Pogba (who earns 0.5 mill more).

You could also say the same thing about our position in the football world when it comes to Handanovic wanting CL. FFS, a young JZ would have probably left this club too. Icardi's long term future is also a massive question mark.

 

[Kazaan]

Best captain we can have is not the same as a good captain. Icardi isn't even the best choice at Inter. Miranda, JJ, Medel, Handanovic, even Palacio are all easily better picks.

I have no more arguments about Handa. Miranda had just signed for Inter at the time. It would have been weird and a bit provincial of us to give it to him imo Palacio's situation was the same as Handa's. His contract was expiring and there was no clarity regarding his future. Medel is a shit player imo

Teammates have more respect for a teammate if they don't simulate, cry, or bitch? That's not true at all. Especially in comparison to the most important quality, leadership. I don't see how the squad has respect for a 22 y/o Icardi. Kazaan, Icardi is without a single doubt the worst captain in Serie A.

There are a lot of ways to gain respect. And being fair is definitely one of them.

I didn't say he isn't a good player but that has nothing to do with giving him the armband. 4 mill/year is a fucking ridiculous contract for Icardi. It makes him one of the highest paid players in the league. He earns more than everyone at Juventus bar Buffon, Khedira (who both earn the same as him), and Pogba (who earns 0.5 mill more). You could also say the same thing about our position in the football world when it comes to Handanovic wanting CL. FFS, a young JZ would have probably left this club too.

He was the best attacker of the league in a team that was 8th on the table. He had suitors and that pushed his salary up I guess. Not that I like it...

How is that relevant to whether or not you have the restraint not to mouth off the fans when they react badly to a bad period in terms of results?

It is relevant because it shows he was ready to do the hard thing and face his fans. When they disrespected him he got rightfully angry.

 

[TheNetworkZ]

Best captain we can have is not the same as a good captain. And Icardi isn't the best choice at Inter for that matter. Miranda, JJ, Medel, Handanovic, even Palacio are all easily better picks. If Nagatomo is always starting, I'd give it to Nagatomo ahead of Icardi too. Icardi is without a single doubt the worst captain in Serie A..

Wtf? You literally have no idea what Icardi and the others are like in practice and the training grounds, nor will you ever know.

 

[bandiera]

I have no more arguments about Handa. Miranda had just signed for Inter at the time. It would have been weird and a bit provincial of us to give it to him imo Palacio's situation was the same as Handa's. His contract was expiring and there was no clarity regarding his future. Medel is a shit player imo




There are a lot of ways to gain respect. And being fair is definitely one of them.



He was the best attacker of the league in a team that was 8th on the table. He had suitors and that pushed his salary up I guess. Not that I like it...



It is relevant because it shows he was ready to do the hard thing and face his fans. When they disrespected him he got rightfully angry.

Again though, not relevant. Miranda is a better captain than Icardi. Medel isn't a good player but he's a better captain than Icardi. Palacio, Handanovic, and Nagatomo are all better captains than Icardi.

Bottom line is that Handanovic decided to stay in the summer. Palacio decided to stay too and there wouldn't have been any discussion about his future especially with the armband. And the argument that a player wants to leave so he isn't a good captain, is ridiculous. You're a good captain if you're a good leader and a good professional, that's it. Even so, Icardi may not have stayed had we not handed him a ridiculous contract.

There are a lot of ways to gain respect. Doesn't mean a 22 y/o Icardi gains enough respect with his "fairness", especially when he isn't a leader.

You're explaining why we justified giving him the contract. That doesn't mean it was a justified decision. Bottom line is that 4 mill/year is a ridiculous contract for Icardi.

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Wtf? You literally have no idea what Icardi and the others are like in practice and the training grounds, nor will you ever know.

You don't know the situation either. But we can talk about probabilities here based on what qualities I can see, what qualities people respect, and what qualities are important in a captain.

 

[TheNetworkZ]

What probabilities are there that makes Icardi the absolute worst captain in Serie A? The guy is clearly respected by all those around him, and he certainly delivers on the field.

 

[Kazaan]

Again though, not relevant. Miranda is a better captain than Icardi. Medel isn't a good player but he's a better captain than Icardi. Palacio, Handanovic, and Nagatomo are all better captains than Icardi.

Bottom line is that Handanovic decided to stay in the summer. Palacio decided to stay too and there wouldn't have been any discussion about his future especially with the armband. And the argument that a player wants to leave so he isn't a good captain, is ridiculous. You're a good captain if you're a good leader and a good professional, that's it. Even so, Icardi may not have stayed had we not handed him a ridiculous contract.

There are a lot of ways to gain respect. Doesn't mean a 22 y/o Icardi gains enough respect with his "fairness", especially when he isn't a leader.

You're explaining why we justified giving him the contract. That doesn't mean it was a justified decision. Bottom line is that 4 mill/year is a ridiculous contract for Icardi.

Ok, can you name something specific, some instance or a situation where his supposed lack of leadership brought us any kind of harm? I mean it seems like we are overestimating the effect this armband has had on our season.

Palacio -- he was not a first team player. What's the point of having captain on the bench?

And why is the argument about leaving ridiculous? How can you lead a group you are not sure you want to be a part of?

Regarding the contract, I agree, we probably panicked that he was going to leave...

 

[bandiera]

What probabilities are there that makes Icardi the absolute worst captain in Serie A? The guy is clearly respected by all those around him, and he certainly delivers on the field.

Other captains in Serie A aren't respected? Other captains in Serie A are better leaders and a lot more experienced. Only at Inter would we make a decision even Torino or Atalanta wouldn't make. Youngest captains after Icardi are 28 years old. Kamil Glik, who is a lion on the field, has been with Torino for 5 years, and is on <1 mill/year rejecting much higher financial offers, and Hamsik, who has been with Napoli for 9 years with 302 apps, and is captain of his national team too. Everyone after that is older than 30. But no, let's give it to a 22 y/o Icardi blivious:

I honestly don't see the respect. The fact he isn't disrespected doesn't mean he's respected. I don't even see him as our biggest leader. Miranda, Melo, Medel, and Palacio seem like bigger leaders to me.

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Ok, can you name something specific, some instance or a situation where his supposed lack of leadership brought us any kind of harm? I mean it seems like we are overestimating the effect this armband has had on our season.

Palacio -- he was not a first team player. What's the point of having captain on the bench?

And why is the argument about leaving ridiculous? How can you lead a group you are not sure you want to be a part of?

Regarding the contract, I agree, we probably panicked that he was going to leave...

I didn't say he's harmful with the armband. All I said is that he isn't a good captain. He doesn't offer enough leadership, and more importantly, other players offer more leadership that is a lot more deserving of the title.

Palacio has played enough games this season to wear the armband.

No, I still think it's a ridiculous argument. Whether or not you're open to going somewhere else in the summer doesn't necessarily mean you don't have the characteristics to be a good captain if you stay. And Icardi was ready to leave if we hadn't given him 4 mill/year.

 

[Kazaan]

I didn't say he's harmful with the armband. All I said is that he isn't a good captain. He doesn't offer enough leadership, and more importantly, other players offer more leadership that is a lot more deserving of the title.

I don't see any support for these claims.

Palacio has played enough games this season to wear the armband.

He played those games mainly because Jovetic started to regress, not because it was planned.

No, I still think it's a ridiculous argument. Whether or not you're open to going somewhere else in the summer doesn't necessarily mean you don't have the characteristics to be a good captain if you stay. And Icardi was ready to leave if we hadn't given him 4 mill/year.

Maybe if you are retiring and you are already captain. But in other cases, it makes little sense to inaugurate someone who doesn't know if he'll be there for long.

The negotiations for renewal had started before Icardi was considered for captaincy. Palacio and Handa had a way more unstable relationship with the club at time. Icardi was more convincing that he was ready to commit to Inter and that's the most important thing -- that your captain is invested in what you are doing.

 

[Ronin]

Right now, one of the youngest, if not the worst captain in the history of Milan, Inter, Juve. Without a single doubt, the worst/most meaningless captain in the league. Only at Inter this shit happens.

Holy shit, that's quite an argument to make for someone who doesn't have a clue about what happens behind closed doors and with zero evidence to support his claims.

 

[bandiera]

I don't see any support for these claims.

The idea that my argument is flawed because you don't have evidence to say the contrary is really ridiculous. I don't see any support for your claims either. Based on what Icardi has shown and what people look for in a captain, I don't see how anyone can argue Icardi has been a good captain. I don't see how it's probable that a 22 y/o who has shown practically no leadership on the field is well respected. Your argument was that he doesn't dive or bitch to the referee blivious:

Only Inter and Inter fans will rationalize this. No club in Serie A except for Inter would give the armband to a 22 y/o Icardi. Or let me guess, there's something improbable and magical that happens behind the scenes that you don't have any clue about and contradicts the situation on the field.

He played those games mainly because Jovetic started to regress, not because it was planned.

Irrelevant. He has still played those games. Palacio is a regular starter for us right now so it doesn't make any sense to say he isn't worth the armband as much as Icardi because of playing time. If Palacio wasn't a regular starter and Jovetic was a regular starter in his place, I wouldn't say this. The entire point is the assumption that Palacio won't play at the beginning of the season isn't valid. I also mentioned Medel and Nagatomo who you ignored. And if anything, Jovetic would take more time away from Icardi than Palacio.

Maybe if you are retiring and you are already captain. But in other cases, it makes little sense to inaugurate someone who doesn't know if he'll be there for long.

The negotiations for renewal had started before Icardi was considered for captaincy. Palacio and Handa had a way more unstable relationship with the club at time. Icardi was more convincing that he was ready to commit to Inter and that's the most important thing -- that your captain is invested in what you are doing.

Who cares what the conditions were? We're talking about hypotheticals, right? Keep Ranocchia as captain, wait until Handanovic stays or leaves, then make the call. In the case of Palacio, the uncertainty re his future was on our side than his.

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Holy shit, that's quite an argument to make for someone who doesn't have a clue about what happens behind closed doors and with zero evidence to support his claims.

at this argument. don't throw stones if you live in a glass house. This fucking forum. What can I expect though. Now people are actually arguing there could be something magical happening behind the scenes and then complaining about evidence. Sure, the 22 y/o guy who shows no leadership on the field, without any doubt the worst captain in the league, is a good captain for us Everyone else has 30+ y/o's holding the armband but Icardi has a unique maturity and leadership that compensates for being fucking 22, absolutely.

Decision to give him the armband was either plain stupidity or an inferiority complex.

 

[JJM]

the real capitano should be Miranda but it is unusual to give the arm band to the new comer...thus Icardi>>>Frog,Nagatomo,Guarin
maybe Palacio too but he ain't a starter,or he wasn't intended as one in the start of the season.
Handa maybe but he wasn't capitano long in the Slovenian NT...I can't say exactly why,the official story was that GK's can't communicate with the ref so easily,the captain needs to be an outfield player...
Medel is too much of a hot head.

In the end it doesn't rly matter does it?!

The real leader on the pitch is Miranda...you can see it and he doesn't need a arm band for it.

 

[virusfever]

I can see that Handa is not leader material, maybe he himself didn't want to captain. He doesn't seem to speak much and his charisma is rarely seen on the field. He retired early from the NT and with all his talent, he chose to stay at Inter. I think he's someone who just want to play football, be extremely good at it and get paid. Not everyone is born a leader and wanting to inspire others you know.