The Suning Commerce Group

Gal

Capitano
Capitano
Joined
Jul 18, 2022
Messages
1,631
Likes
1,208
I still do not understand. Why Zhang did not sell for 700-800-900M, when he saw that can not pay Oaktree? At least, he will have few hundreds millions left in his pocket. How stupid you have to be: asking B1.1-1.2-1.3, nobody wants to pay that amount, than you "sell" for M400, and left empty pockets. Unbeliveable!

Because if he got an offer less than market value which would likely be the case, then it would be financial better for him to let the deal run out as Oaktree would still according to the loan deal pay the difference between loan + interest and market value, which in fact would mean Zhang would earn more then had he sold the club below market value.

The reason they probably never sold the club was because an offer above the likely valuation never arrived on the desk.
 

.h.

Part time Lazarus
La Grande Inter
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Messages
29,519
Likes
7,690
Favorite Player
Inter1-0Wanda
Old username
browha
Forum Supporter
10 years of FIF
Because if he got an offer less than market value which would likely be the case, then it would be financial better for him to let the deal run out as Oaktree would still according to the loan deal pay the difference between loan + interest and market value, which in fact would mean Zhang would earn more then had he sold the club below market value.

The reason they probably never sold the club was because an offer above the likely valuation never arrived on the desk.
honestly, itll be years of legal battles arguing what fair market value is. football clubs are very hard to value. If its proxy valuations, then who else is therE? Just Milan, and actually I dont think we will stack too well considering they were profitable when sold (for example), and with no debt. Inter is likely to go with like 400m of debt (bonds), so the net valuation of the club might be like 600m in court
 

Gal

Capitano
Capitano
Joined
Jul 18, 2022
Messages
1,631
Likes
1,208
honestly, itll be years of legal battles arguing what fair market value is. football clubs are very hard to value. If its proxy valuations, then who else is therE? Just Milan, and actually I dont think we will stack too well considering they were profitable when sold (for example), and with no debt. Inter is likely to go with like 400m of debt (bonds), so the net valuation of the club might be like 600m in court

Again depends on the exact wording on the agreement, you could easily put in how such valuation is made on the deal itself. If it only say what has been rumoured then yes a legal battle is likely to happen.
 

.h.

Part time Lazarus
La Grande Inter
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Messages
29,519
Likes
7,690
Favorite Player
Inter1-0Wanda
Old username
browha
Forum Supporter
10 years of FIF
Again depends on the exact wording on the agreement, you could easily put in how such valuation is made on the deal itself. If it only say what has been rumoured then yes a legal battle is likely to happen.
mm, thats fair, but theres no easy objective way to measure the value of a football club, even if both sides agreed on it? I mean, the only easy way would be to look up what the transfermarkt value of the players are, and that's been very publicly exposed as heavily manipulated by agents and clubs
 

CafeCordoba

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Mar 7, 2004
Messages
35,642
Likes
15,184
Favorite Player
Toro, Barella
10 years of FIF
Yeah it's going to be interesting.

If the deal was that there's a valuation for the club and Zhangs pocket the rest of it after the owed money is subtracted. When that valuation is made? Today in around 4 hours? Who's going to do it?

I would guess the "legal issues" in this case are related to this valuation part of the deal. If, this part of the deal is even true what I just speculated.
 

.h.

Part time Lazarus
La Grande Inter
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Messages
29,519
Likes
7,690
Favorite Player
Inter1-0Wanda
Old username
browha
Forum Supporter
10 years of FIF
I'd guess the valuation is at point of sale, less the debt valuation at point of sale too (eg it will continue to compound interest)
 

varmin

Allenatore
Allenatore
Joined
Dec 23, 2014
Messages
9,564
Likes
9,151
Forum Supporter
Most Improved Member
In one Bulgarian serie A group, Jube fans are celebrating the Oaktree takeover, as there is some former Jube employee, which according to them will destroy Inter 😃
No idea how this will happen, but Iet them dream about it.
If we gonna have a new owner, I want some financial stable guy, who won't interfere in Marotta and Assuilio's business.
 
Last edited:

.h.

Part time Lazarus
La Grande Inter
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Messages
29,519
Likes
7,690
Favorite Player
Inter1-0Wanda
Old username
browha
Forum Supporter
10 years of FIF
just in case anyone is not sure

the chance of a professional fund deliberately destroying an asset that is about 0.5% of their net assets is, well, precisely fucking 0. Just in case anyone is stupid enough to believe this stuff.
 

CafeCordoba

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Mar 7, 2004
Messages
35,642
Likes
15,184
Favorite Player
Toro, Barella
10 years of FIF
I'd guess the valuation is at point of sale, less the debt valuation at point of sale too (eg it will continue to compound interest)
The point of sale could happen whenever, in two years etc.

Like we discussed in latest INTER JECTIONS episode, there's an agency problem if Oaktree doesn't have incentive to sell at higher price at all. If the deal is that Zhangs pocket the difference between the sale price and the owed money, Oaktree should just sell Inter for the owed money if they don't get anything more for themselves. They can manage to sell Inter the very second they get the ownership. I find it hard to believe this is the case.

Then again, if the valuation is determined somehow differently, or if there is a slice for Oaktree to be taken from the sale, it becomes more interesting and the legal issues are more relevant in this instance. I tend to believe it's either of these latter scenarios, not the one first one, where Oaktree doesn't get any benefit of the growth of Inter's value.
 

.h.

Part time Lazarus
La Grande Inter
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Messages
29,519
Likes
7,690
Favorite Player
Inter1-0Wanda
Old username
browha
Forum Supporter
10 years of FIF
The point of sale could happen whenever, in two years etc.

Like we discussed in latest INTER JECTIONS episode, there's an agency problem if Oaktree doesn't have incentive to sell at higher price at all. If the deal is that Zhangs pocket the difference between the sale price and the owed money, Oaktree should just sell Inter for the owed money if they don't get anything more for themselves. They can manage to sell Inter the very second they get the ownership. I find it hard to believe this is the case.

Then again, if the valuation is determined somehow differently, or if there is a slice for Oaktree to be taken from the sale, it becomes more interesting and the legal issues are more relevant in this instance. I tend to believe it's either of these latter scenarios, not the one first one, where Oaktree doesn't get any benefit of the growth of Inter's value.


Yeah, thats why I think its likely to be:
1 - interest continues to accrue until a sale is organised
2 - net valuation of the company less debt is likely to be paid back to suning (theres a question on what 'fair' valuation would be, of course)


In terms of benefits, practically speaking, Oaktree dont really have any interest in running a club, so selling sooner rather than later means they can recycle their equity - if they're gonna hold onto it for too long they might as well have just given Zhang an extension TBH. It'd have been equivalent, with less administration for them.

No one who has a vested interest anymore will care about what happens to Suning's stake, BUT it is worth highlighting that our squad is probably up quite a bit, which means the valuation of the players and the club is up, and with potential profitability next season, the valuation of the club could increase a decent amount next season - which probably opens up more discussions around legal/etc.
 

crzdcolombian

La Grande Inter
La Grande Inter
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Messages
14,613
Likes
2,144
Favorite Player
Cryptozo d King
10 years of FIF
In one Bulgarian serie A group, Jube fans are celebrating the Oaktree takeover, as there is some former Jube employee, which according to them will destroy Inter 😃
No idea how this will happen, but Iet them dream about it.
If we gonna have a new owner, I want some financial stable guy, who won't interfere in Marotta and Assuilio's business.

that is idiotic. Serie A went to shit when Juve went down. Fine the sponsorship and tv deals are bad but yea not having big teams kills your league.

I celebrate every Italian team win that makes the league stronger/more attractive. If it's AC Milan vs Liverpool for a champions league final I am cheering for Milan. FK England and their EPL propaganda BS. Only Italian team I truly hate is Roma and even then if they were in the Europa league final I'd cheer for them vs Sevilla :)

As for oak tree. If they are willing to take us over and pay the difference of the loan and FMV then they aren't going to sell us for chump change nor make the team worth less than it currently is by selling all our best players. Was Sunning not even paying their interest payments? their loan in 3 years went up 130m?

They will probably put a salary cap on new players and contracts (other than potentially the ones they have in the works with Lautaro) tho wouldn't blame them if they get a 100m offer plus can save 20m a season on a contract. They are just going to have a real hard time replacing his goals which would hurt their club value.
 

.h.

Part time Lazarus
La Grande Inter
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Messages
29,519
Likes
7,690
Favorite Player
Inter1-0Wanda
Old username
browha
Forum Supporter
10 years of FIF
that is idiotic. Serie A went to shit when Juve went down. Fine the sponsorship and tv deals are bad but yea not having big teams kills your league.

I celebrate every Italian team win that makes the league stronger/more attractive. If it's AC Milan vs Liverpool for a champions league final I am cheering for Milan. FK England and their EPL propaganda BS. Only Italian team I truly hate is Roma and even then if they were in the Europa league final I'd cheer for them vs Sevilla :)

As for oak tree. If they are willing to take us over and pay the difference of the loan and FMV then they aren't going to sell us for chump change nor make the team worth less than it currently is by selling all our best players. Was Sunning not even paying their interest payments? their loan in 3 years went up 130m?

They will probably put a salary cap on new players and contracts (other than potentially the ones they have in the works with Lautaro) tho wouldn't blame them if they get a 100m offer plus can save 20m a season on a contract. They are just going to have a real hard time replacing his goals which would hurt their club value.
the interest payments were payment-in-kind, so added to the principle
 

brehme1989

La Grande Inter
La Grande Inter
Joined
Jan 17, 2005
Messages
34,856
Likes
17,848
10 years of FIF
Nostradamus
Most Passionate Member
Stupid question but what is "local time" in this case? China, Italy, United States...all very different time zones.
Was referring to Inter time, hence Italy. But good question.
Luxembourg time actually, but same as Italy.

It seems now that they say it's midnight Italy time, so 17:00 somewhere in the US.
 

PHM1605

Allenatore
Allenatore
Joined
Feb 25, 2013
Messages
5,300
Likes
2,873
10 years of FIF
that is idiotic. Serie A went to shit when Juve went down. Fine the sponsorship and tv deals are bad but yea not having big teams kills your league.

...
Cheating isnt healthy for the league. It ruins players confidence because they must play weeks in weeks out unfair.

As soon as the air was fresh we won the historical treble. The only time in Serie A history. How you called it killed?

Every time Juve news popup that is about crime. The literal definition of rotten lol.
 
Top