Calciopoli II

[Toss_it_up]

Thanks for uppdating us guys, do you think there will come more call from Moratti and Fachetti ?

 

[Alessandro]

Luka = Messi ... Great read man. Your the king...

 

[Sen2010]

Can someone translate this, please?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImEXUwMIKH4

 

[Luka]

Why should we care what Bergamo has to say ?

It is like asking Moggi for an opinion, or Paparesta.

Thanks for uppdating us guys, do you think there will come more call from Moratti and Fachetti ?

There might, but as long as these calls will look like the ones we have been shown now, there is absolutely nothing to fear, unless the judges are bribed.

I don't know how many are there, but there have been mixed reports. Maybe I'll look into it sometime, but since there weren't many that were posted through the press I think option A is more probable. In option A, I've heard of about 60 calls that Moratti or Facchetti were involved in, and the other was about 50 000.

 

[skeet]

when i heard that phone calls from fachetti and moratti with bergamo surfaced i decided to do some research myself and i have come to the conclusion that this whole thing is a complete non-issue

the inter phone calls are absolutely nothing like the moggi phone calls, they were along the lines of "which referee did we get" or "please give us a good referee"

but it is very clear that moggi and bergamo were having agreements over referees and were clearly deciding the referees TOGETHER

inter fans shouldn't be paying attention to this BS, moratti and fachetti did nothing illegal, and there is no evidence that suggests otherwise

 

[Gazebo]

calciopoli II

No, no, no Cafe

You need some studying man

What is going on now, is the Napoli trail. This is the original trial that is the core of Calciopoli. In 2006 there was a sporting trial, but the prosecutors opened the civil investigation, and now the trial is heading into the key moment.

So it is not a process started by JuBe. It is the original process, that deals with Moggi now. Giraudo was trialed in November (or close to that) last year, and got 5 years, and now it's time for Moggi.

As for the "new tapes". Moggi deffenders, said there should be tapes of Moratti calling to Bergamo (ref designator), as well as Facchetti calling Bergamo.

But what does it mean ? It doesn't mean shit actually. We already know what they were calling for, because it's nothing new. In 2006 there were also reports saying Moratti and Facchetti called Bergamo, but it was ONLY to complain about the refs.

Complaining about the refs doesn't equal what Moggi did.

Hi,
this is my first post in this Forum.
I am Juve fan and I hope this will not be in issue, as long as I respect all the rules.
So please allow me to make a small correction on Giraudo's situation. Although the initial request was of five years of jail, the verdict was of three years. Being this a first degree verdict, it is very likely that an appeal will take place and that the years in jail will drop even more.

 

[Stefan]

Hi,
this is my first post in this Forum.
I am Juve fan and I hope this will not be in issue, as long as I respect all the rules.
So please allow me to make a small correction on Giraudo's situation. Although the initial request was of five years of jail, the verdict was of three years. Being this a first degree verdict, it is very likely that an appeal will take place and that the years in jail will drop even more.

If you keep to the rules we will have no issues. We have a barca regular and two semi regular milans fans but juve fans have never in the past been able to stick to the rules. But if you do we are open to civil discussions.

 

[Gazebo]

Ok.

(Papparesta incident).

Hi again,
if you mean that this was the episode in which Moggi would have locked Paparesta in his changing room during the break between the first and second half of the match Reggina - Juventus, please consider that this never (ever) happened.

the below segment (it is in Italian) shows Paparesta firmly denying the above episode.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdXMoS6SDTE&feature=related

 

[Gazebo]

If you keep to the rules we will have no issues. We have a barca regular and two semi regular milans fans but juve fans have never in the past been able to stick to the rules. But if you do we are open to civil discussions.

many thanks

I will try to be an exception from the other Juve users.

My posts are mainly to clarify some things, as I have the impression that some of them are not properly explained.

 

[Gazebo]

I've read quite a bit lately, and I think I know enough.

This is very simple guys.

There is a trial in Napoli now, and Moggis lawyers cannot deffend him from the tapes, as the transcriptions can be only interpreted one way. Instead they decided for a different strategy.

They want to make it seem, that Moratti and Facchetti also called the designators, did something wrong, and basing on this they draw the conclusions, that Inter did the same, so we're not guilty.

I already figured that out the moment it started to emerge, but today Moggi said exactly the same thing. Suprise suprise

The difference though is clearly for everyone to see.

What Moggi did, and what Moratti did (simply information, not requesting any favours, any referees, not a thing) is completely separate, as a prosecutors of Napoli said today.


Nothing will happen, JuBe will burn in hell, as where is their place

Hi Luka
yet again something needs to be said:
Moggi's defence is also working on the interpretation side, as the sports trial verdict has some major mistakes.
If you want, I can give you some examples.

 

[CafeCordoba]

To summarise, they say there is a doubt that the draw was fixed, just like you said, BUT the thing I've quoted over here ^^^, says that the "fixing" was done in other ways. There are clear evidences that Moggi DID interfere with the preps of the grids of the refs, and the choice of the linesmen.

ps. The only arrogant is you, who believe those scums, and not the fuckin club you allegedly support.

I don't know what's that about, but they had no evidence whatsoever for that. There was no fixing in referee draws. "The fixing was done in other ways". What is that? They had no evidence for fixing the draw. It was not part of the verdict for Moggi.

I explain to you how this all went. There is Article 1 in sports justice, which is for unsportsman conduct in general. Article 6 is for sporting fraud (so more serious one). They found no evidence for match-fixing or referee draw manipulation or any referee control, which are violations of Article 6. This is in that verdict. They found no evidence for that. But, based on the fact that there was this connection between Moggi and ref designators (the phone calls) + GEA agency control + SIM card shit, they combined these and considered this all combined to be a violation of Article 6.

You and I know by now that GEA agency control charge failed along with SIM card charge, Moggi won those trials. So there is left only this one "referee control" which was based on the fact that phone calls existed.

Now in this Naples process Moggi's lawyers are showing that the base of the charge is invalid. That there was no system (this accusation was again based on the fact that calls existed) and others had connection to ref designators too. I don't believe Moggi will go to jail, because there is simply no case. I don't know why Giraudo went to jail, but he will most probably appeal and as this new evidence is used now in Moggi's trial, he can probably use that evidence too.

My point all the time has been that Juve was harshly punished. I don't understand how people think I'm not believing my club. What the fucking bullshit is that? This is not about Inter, Inter's calls are just used as evidence. Moggi's phone calls really didn't differ from Inter's ones, or at least the content wasn't used in his initial verdict at the first place. Which leads to the fact that nothing serious was in those calls because they proved nothing even in sporting trial. Do you think they prove anything in normal court?

 

[Luka]

I won't answer to you Cafe, and I won't babysit you either (I already showed you one example, when you "bent" the truth, just like typical juventini do), because I don't have time for this. I can only give you the same advice I gave you earlier on:

More study, and less juBe sites.

Hi,
this is my first post in this Forum.
I am Juve fan and I hope this will not be in issue, as long as I respect all the rules.

It won't be an issue, deffinetly.

So please allow me to make a small correction on Giraudo's situation. Although the initial request was of five years of jail, the verdict was of three years. Being this a first degree verdict, it is very likely that an appeal will take place and that the years in jail will drop even more.

That is correct. I've checked and indeed it was 3 years sentence. My mistake. I don't know how I got the digit 5 sticked into my mind. Anyways, thanks for the correction.

As for the length of the sentence (even if it will be shortened further), the main point is that he was found guilty. How long he was sentenced to, is really the second important thing here.

Hi again,
if you mean that this was the episode in which Moggi would have locked Paparesta in his changing room during the break between the first and second half of the match Reggina - Juventus, please consider that this never (ever) happened.

the below segment (it is in Italian) shows Paparesta firmly denying the above episode.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdXMoS6SDTE&feature=related

There is an asnwer to it in the document I've uploaded for Cafe. Page 65 to be exact.

One important thing has to be said first. Paparesta did not mention this episode after the game in the report, as he should have done, but called Moggi one day later instead for calrification. It is all said on page 65.

This was no coincidence, as was later on confirmed when Paparesta was in front of Carabinieri, who had the perception of a man in front of them who is feared by the reaction of Moggi (the leadership of Juventus). Page 65 again.

And now to the conclusion.

Because Paparesta denied that he had ever been locked anywhere, it is for exactly that reason that we can't trust for a second his word. Because If it depended on him alone, it would never come out !!!

Hi Luka
yet again something needs to be said:
Moggi's defence is also working on the interpretation side, as the sports trial verdict has some major mistakes.

We will see, how it goes.

As for examples, I don't have time to go into this whole mess again in detail, and elaborate the whole 150 pages. I remember a lot less than half of what I knew some time ago, and I don't have time to go and remember it all over again. This is not the case that's base is on 1 or 2 calls, but many of them. Even if there are some mistakes (and I'm not saying there are either) it doesn't change the whole picture.

The whole case cannot be croocked, because of the logic I already presented. It is just a matter of inteligence. A big club like JuBe, with such an enormous fanbase, cannot be relegated on base of flimsy circumstances, and not solid evidence, with the club doing nothing to prevent it, instead just standing by and even making a plea and ask to be relegated.

This is simply impossible, unless the club was guilty and the leadership of Juventus knew about it.

 

[CafeCordoba]

I won't answer to you Cafe, and I won't babysit you either (I already showed you one example, when you "bent" the truth, just like typical juventini do), because I don't have time for this. I can only give you the same advice I gave you earlier on:

More study, and less juBe sites.

I think there is enough study with that verdict. No Juve sites needed. In the verdict, it is said that there was no manipulation of the ref draw, there is nothing illegal content in the phone calls. Moggi got sentenced for the network, and the existing phone calls proved that. How hard is it to understand this fact?

That is correct. I've checked and indeed it was 3 years sentence. My mistake. I don't know how I got the digit 5 sticked into my mind. Anyways, thanks for the correction.

As for the length of the sentence (even if it will be shortened further), the main point is that he was found guilty. How long he was sentenced to, is really the second important thing here.

They used old evidence in Giraudo's trial. They didn't use the evidence which are now used in Moggi's trial. Let's wait for the appeal.

There is an asnwer to it in the document I've uploaded for Cafe. Page 65 to be exact.

One important thing has to be said first. Paparesta did not mention this episode after the game in the report, as he should have done, but called Moggi one day later instead for calrification. It is all said on page 65.

This was no coincidence, as was later on confirmed when Paparesta was in front of Carabinieri, who had the perception of a man in front of them who is feared by the reaction of Moggi (the leadership of Juventus). Page 65 again.

And now to the conclusion.

Because Paparesta denied that he had ever been locked anywhere, it is for exactly that reason that we can't trust for a second his word. Because If it depended on him alone, it would never come out !!!

So are you saying that Paparesta got locked? Do you have evidence for that? Because normal procedure is to show evidence to back up the accusation. Please enlighten us with some evidence for that incident to have ever occurred. Even in the sporting trial there was no evidence found for that.

 

[Alessandro]

An Interista defending Moggi... Amazing honestly.

 

[delaurentis]

It's more personal issues against Luka..

 

[Faggettipoli]

Luka hasnt got the time to answer those questions, he knew all the facts before, but doesnt remember them now.

Luka: "the main point is that he was found guilty".
But regarding the Paparesta issue, it doesnt matter the fact that Moggi wasn't declared guilty

 

[Gazebo]

And now to the conclusion.

Because Paparesta denied that he had ever been locked anywhere, it is for exactly that reason that we can't trust for a second his word. Because If it depended on him alone, it would never come out !!!

Ok, but I am trying to stay as objective as possible.
I know that this may sound weird (especially) from a Juventus user, but why not give it a try.
to recap, some facts:
1 - after the match Reggina - Juventus had finished, Moggi called a certain Garufi Silvana to tell her that he was so mad at the referees (especially the linesman) that he locked the trio in the changing room. Also he says that he took the keys to the airport.
2 - 15 minutes later Moggi called the journalist Damascelli and in this case he tells the guy that he locked the trio in the changing room but he did not take the keys away.
So, I hope you agree, here we have two versions in less than 30 minutes.

Moreover, Pietro Ingargiola (the ref observator who also was present in the changing room) confirms to Tullio Lanese that Moggi and Giraudo did go there to protest against Paparesta and - especially -Copelli, but doesn't say one word about Moggi locking up the people.

So, considering the above
-Moggi giving two versions of what had happened,
-Paparesta, nor the linesmen never mentioning that we (edit he) was locked in the room and still continues denying firmly that statement
-Ingargiola not mentioning anything to Tullio Lanese,
how can people be so sure that Paparesta and the linesmen were locked in?

As for examples,

If you don't mind, I'll give you just a couple.

You will remember that among the various accusations against Moggi, there was one related to the "piloted" yellow cards against players that were on "sharp". What I mean is that prior to the games against Juve, some referees would have given yellow cards against some particular players, so that they would skip the successive game - (with Juve).
One of the accusations was related to the match Udinese - Brescia 26/09/2004: in this match three Udinese players (Pinzi, Di Michele and Muntari) got booked and Jankulowski received a red card. (Udinese would have played against Juve the next match).
According the accusation, the bookings (and sending off) were piloted, so that all involved players would not be at the Delle Alpi: weird enough the three Udinese players weren't on the sharp list, so they actually were available against Juventus (!!!!!).
With regards to Jankulowski, there is no argue about his red card, as he was involved in the fighting following Brescia's decisive goal with the Udinese goalie on the floor.


2) Sampdoria - Siena
In this game Simone Inzaghi got booked and therefore did not play the following match against Juve. So, according the accusation Juve got a great advantage by Inzaghi's abscence to the point that they won the match by 1-0. Too bad Juve had lost that match by 0-1.


So, considering the above facts (it's all in the almanacs), is Moggi the only party that cannot be trusted?

 

[CafeCordoba]

An Interista defending Moggi... Amazing honestly.

Yes, as sad as it sounds. But I'm Interista with truthfulness and justice in my mind. Moggi really got treated a bit unfairly, according to the facts.

It's more personal issues against Luka..

Stop that bullshit, it has nothing personal against Luka. Luka can disappear from this thread completely and I will still continue here.

 

[Alessandro]

Will it be Moratti?

A Serie A club president has been accused of allegedly handing out presents to referee designators prior to the Calciopoli scandal of 2006, report La Stampa and Calciomercato.com.

On Tuesday the tribunal of Naples will regather to assess more evidence which has recently been put forward by Luciano Moggi's legal team. So far, evidence of phone calls between Inter, Milan and referee designators Paolo Bergamo and Pierluigi Pairetto has been discovered and some of those published by Italian media.

And when the hearing takes place tomorrow, the court will hear that one club president invited the designator home and gave him presents.

Moggi's defence team reportedly have evidence of a telephone call in which the president, who remains unknown, allegedly invited Bergamo to the home of the club's majority shareholder at the time to give him gifts.

Other phone calls are set to be examined to establish who called who and for what reasons.

 

[brehme1989]

Agnelli's through Moggi gave out Maseratti to refs and designators.

Berlusconi could have made tax exceptions for some.

Moratti could only give out Pirelli tyres and gas for the Maseratti I think...

It's a good thing that Italians are ready to bring justice in football(unlike Greece which is much more complex), but it must contain facts from a time back in the early 90s if it's going to be accurate.