Financial crisis (in Europe)

[Kato]

ah europe is crazy, i'm just glad i'm not living in Greece anymore. I visited in June and the prices were just absolutely shocking, considering the average wage etc over there. Haven't really noticed any effects of it over here just yet though..

 

[AxigZag.ESIOLAG.]

They never stopped their old tricks, it's the same tricks on a loop...Different administration, same greed at work

Perhaps I was a bit naive in thinking I could escape the horror I witnessed as a citizen over there by escaping to Suisse...but the impact is obviously global, much like most things in this world - it impacts us all

Word! Every time I go down the street & i hear people arguing over who should be this or that, who did this or that , who ruined the country etc etc...The 1st thing I ask them is"...are u a millionaire?" or do u at least make 6 digits a year? If the answer is no: I say say: it doesn't matter who is in power buddy! As long as u an average 50G or less a year person, no one gives a fuck about u! It is that simple! Doesn't matter if their name is Obama, Cain, Bachmann, Romney or who ever is supposed to be the next best thing!

---------- Post added at 08:51 ---------- Previous post was at 08:50 ----------

ah europe is crazy, i'm just glad i'm not living in Greece anymore. I visited in June and the prices were just absolutely shocking, considering the average wage etc over there. Haven't really noticed any effects of it over here just yet though..

If u are in Italy, then imo, there is not much of a difference lol

 

[CafeCordoba]

Yeah. Unfortunately Italy will be hugely fucked in the coming years. There are two options. One is that they accept the regulations EU orders, which means huge increases in taxations and cuts in public sector for many, many years. Other option is they go into default (they run out of money), the fall will be even bigger since they can't get money from the market anymore. Bigger hit but perhaps they can rise from there eventually, no one knows.

Anyway, there will be no good future in Italy in long-term. The debt burden is so massive.

 

[Black&Blue]

Yeah. Unfortunately Italy will be hugely fucked in the coming years. There are two options. One is that they accept the regulations EU orders, which means huge increases in taxations and cuts in public sector for many, many years. Other option is they go into default (they run out of money), the fall will be even bigger since they can't get money from the market anymore. Bigger hit but perhaps they can rise from there eventually, no one knows.

Anyway, there will be no good future in Italy in long-term. The debt burden is so massive.

I think you are ignoring a lot of aspects,the problem is not the taxations (which are probably the highest in Europe),but the the tax evasion (which is the biggest in Europe),the new government should finally stop that and trying to recover at least the most part of all the money brought by a lot of italian people (with a lot of money) to the fiscal paradise like switzerland,etc. (Only from Swiss banks could be recovered 15 billions euro of evasion tax from italians ,maybe even more)
We have the potential to recover the situation IF the new politics will be sane and not corrupted as the previous years,only time will tell the truth

 

[snake]

I think you are ignoring a lot of aspects,the problem is not the taxations (which are probably the highest in Europe),but the the tax evasion (which is the biggest in Europe),the new government should finally stop that and trying to recover at least the most part of all the money brought by a lot of italian people (with a lot of money) to the fiscal paradise like switzerland,etc. (Only from Swiss banks around 15 billions euro of tax are estimated from italians could be recovered,maybe even more)
We have the potential to recover the situation IF the new politics will be sane and not corrupted as the previous years,only time will tell the truth

Corruption free Italy?

 

[Kato]

nahh i'm in the UK for the next year at least..

lol Hal, corruption free Italy minus Berlusconi is so much more likely than a corruption free Greece, which tbh is probably never going to happen!

 

[Black&Blue]

Corruption it's everywhere,look at USA and then tell me if you can laugh at us ....
But I know our situation is desperated and we have some problems that a foreigner could hardly understand (like the historical cohabitation between Church,State,Mafia for example)... it's really complicated,although you can't have optimistic views for the future ,italians have always been the best to raise again from difficult situations if you look at our history,and this time will be the same thing again.

 

[ADRossi]

,italians have always been the best to raise again from difficult situations if you look at our history,and this time will be the same thing again.

2006 World Cup :awwwyeah:

 

[CafeCordoba]

I think you are ignoring a lot of aspects,the problem is not the taxations (which are probably the highest in Europe),but the the tax evasion (which is the biggest in Europe),the new government should finally stop that and trying to recover at least the most part of all the money brought by a lot of italian people (with a lot of money) to the fiscal paradise like switzerland,etc. (Only from Swiss banks could be recovered 15 billions euro of evasion tax from italians ,maybe even more)
We have the potential to recover the situation IF the new politics will be sane and not corrupted as the previous years,only time will tell the truth

Yeah that is true. But what I mean is that it doesn't matter if its more taxation or taking control the current tax evasion, the outcome is the same. People lose more money to the government compared to the current situation.

But the massive debt burden will ensure that the quality of living simply drops drastically. The 10y goverment bond interest rate was over 7% and is now close to 7% still (after ECB shopping), with the current debt, it's simply unbearable situation in long-term, unfortunately.

Corruption it's everywhere,look at USA and then tell me if you can laugh at us ....

But I know our situation is desperated and we have some problems that a foreigner could hardly understand (like the historical cohabitation between Church,State,Mafia for example)... it's really complicated,although you can't have optimistic views for the future ,italians have always been the best to raise again from difficult situations if you look at our history,and this time will be the same thing again.

I'm certainly rooting for Italians and Greeks, since they will face tough times. IMO best would be to take the hit (default) and rise from there. With these austerity packages in tight EU control, these countries will be in miserable state for a long long time. Okay, that sounds too simplistic and it is that, and lot of people disagree with me about what should be done. But to me EU is pretty much a big fucking failure in its current form.

 

[Black&Blue]

But the massive debt burden will ensure that the quality of living simply drops drastically. The 10y goverment bond interest rate was over 7% and is now close to 7% still (after ECB shopping), with the current debt, it's simply unbearable situation in long-term, unfortunately.

I'm certainly rooting for Italians and Greeks, since they will face tough times. IMO best would be to take the hit (default) and rise from there. With these austerity packages in tight EU control, these countries will be in miserable state for a long long time. Okay, that sounds too simplistic and it is that, and lot of people disagree with me about what should be done. But to me EU is pretty much a big fucking failure in its current form.

We have a political problem mainly,the debt have always been there (although its bigger now) but we are not the only country with a big debt,even England have a really big debt and they have an inferior economy than Italy. What about USA??? We are already the 3rd economy of Europe and the 7th in the World,you can't put us on the same level of Greece sorry.
This is a economic war of speculations made by cheating banks and speculators (and probably some country that wants to cheat our business,like USA that tried to stole ENI for example)

 

[Choppin Onions]

Economic depressions, natural disasters seemingly every week in every part of the world. 2012 is looking more and more likely....

 

[I4E]

The world is always in a crisis !

 

[Macktk]

It's the fault of the geniuses who created the sophisticated problem called the Euro.

I'm certainly rooting for Italians and Greeks, since they will face tough times. IMO best would be to take the hit (default) and rise from there. With these austerity packages in tight EU control, these countries will be in miserable state for a long long time. Okay, that sounds too simplistic and it is that, and lot of people disagree with me about what should be done. But to me EU is pretty much a big fucking failure in its current form.

That would mean Lehman all over again but 10x times worse given the fragile state of the European countries. Such default will probably send the financing cost of the Euro zone sky high, already we've seen Italy's finance costs rising to 6% as per the last auction.
An outright default is never the solution really. Although, Greece is probably heading to a technical default anyways.

 

[CafeCordoba]

Well perhaps not, but some kind of big hit needs to be taken. That way the nations remain free. Now what the eurocrats are trying, is forcing European nations to under one central control of Brussels. They've placed Monti to Italy and Papademos to Greece, both old Goldman Sachs employees (no democratic process in those selections btw) and these guys try to implement the huge cuts in their countries' public sectors to keep them in Euro.

It remains to be seen how long the people of Italy and Greece will tolerate those actions.

 

[Macktk]

Yeah, they will have to suffer unfortunately. The lenders, esp Germany (the one country that won the most out of the whole Euro deal) should be sharing the burden though.

 

[CafeCordoba]

I don't see why Germany would have to share the burden other than to capitalize their own banks who are on the brink of collapse at the point when Greece and others fall. South-Europe have put itself to their troubles by increasing their debts and not taking care of their ability to handle the debt. It's true though that Germany has indeed won very much in this Euro shit, but it's not like they have forced South-Europe to take debt.

Italy government bond interest rates go up again, same happens with Spain and France. This looks fucking awesome. :rollani:

Though actually I like it go to worse and worse sooner than later, because "later" means only more loss of money for everyone.

 

[Macktk]

I don't see why Germany would have to share the burden other than to capitalize their own banks who are on the brink of collapse at the point when Greece and others fall. South-Europe have put itself to their troubles by increasing their debts and not taking care of their ability to handle the debt. It's true though that Germany has indeed won very much in this Euro shit, but it's not like they have forced South-Europe to take debt.

Italy government bond interest rates go up again, same happens with Spain and France. This looks fucking awesome. :rollani:

Though actually I like it go to worse and worse sooner than later, because "later" means only more loss of money for everyone.

True, but Germany's win out of the Euro union was, as a matter of fact, at the expense of economies such as Greece which accumulated a deficit while Germany was running a huge surplus. It wasn't because the Germans were so smart but it was primarily due to the value of the countries' former currencies compared to the euro. This difference benefited Germany exports immensely while at the same time hurt Greece. So it is really unfair, if you ask me, to let 11 million Greeks suffer alone especially when the lender accumulated a large amount of wealth at the expense of the debtor.
At the same time why would the Germans work and pay taxes until the age of 60 to bail out the Greeks who will retire at 55.
It's fucked up really, that's the best way to describe this situation.

Similar to rising yields on France's and Italy's bonds, I read somewhere that CDS rates are rising for many European countries, including your country (no idea why really). And yeah, I wish the whole continent gets bailed out already so that we can get it over with.

 

[CafeCordoba]

Yes, you are absolutely correct. "Fucked up" sums up this whole EU debacle perfectly.

Finland's AAA rating will be in danger in the future (if not already), because our debt burden is also rising every year. And even without being part of the bailouts, so basically we need to take more debt to be part of those bailouts. And if/when our guarantees (don't know the correct word) of EFSF come to our faces, we are truly fucked and lost our AAA rating for good.

 

[Black&Blue]

http://www.paolobarnard.info/docs/ilpiugrandecrimine2011.pdf

there are conspiracy theories that are growing between some journalists/bloggers,this is an example of it full of details of how works this kind of conspiracy against Italy (and it happened in other countries in Europe).

---------- Post added at 11:22 ---------- Previous post was at 11:21 ----------

It's the fault of the geniuses who created the sophisticated problem called the Euro.

Sad but true.

 

[CafeCordoba]

Texts in Italian language go in vain for the most people here in this forum. Though I can guess what's that pdf is about.