General Primavera Discussion

[Wobblz]

This is one of the most prestigious youth tournaments, teams from across the world participate, its not just some shitty small cup in italy.
Look at Milan, for example, who got knocked out really early. Genk, Bruges, PSV...

Well, forgive me for my ignorance. I didn't really suspect that there are clubs from other countries. PSV is impressive as the Dutch always had the best youth systems in the world.

Nevertheless Genk, Bruges and PSV aren't exactly Barca, Real and Ajax. And not to play down the tournament but if Hellas got to the finals then is their youth one of the best in Europe as well?

 

[.h.]

Well, forgive me for my ignorance. I didn't really suspect that there are clubs from other countries. PSV is impressive as the Dutch always had the best youth systems in the world.

Nevertheless Genk, Bruges and PSV aren't exactly Barca, Real and Ajax. And not to play down the tournament but if Hellas got to the finals then is their youth one of the best in Europe as well?

Who knows? I dont know what the Verona primavera is like. Maybe it is this year.

No, its not exactly Barca, Real or Ajax, but its still a pretty good cross-section of international teams. Remember we did win Next Gen a few years ago - competing against the likes of Tottenham, Marseille, Ajax, etc, and I think our current youth team is probably not far off the standard of that one.

- - - Updated - - -

plus, dont forget, beating your peers is better than losing to your peers.

Milan, for example, with Mastour (I assume) etc were knocked out at the group stage

 

[thatdude]

What's the deal with Mastour? I keep hearing nows the time he will be put into the first team but it never seems like that time actually comes. Then it seems he doesn't even play with the primavera consistently, yet he's hyped as this super talent likened to Neymar. I have the feeling Milan are really messing up his growth by hyping him to a level he can't play at yet, and we may be looking at a real flop in the future. Still only 16 so tough to tell, but I have to say I think that development (until the age of 18-19) is something Inter is much better at than Milan.

 

[.h.]

Indeed, I Think its very interesting. I'm sure at least part of it is that they NEED to hype him given how much they paid for him, and the fact that he gives Milan fans hope. There's no doubt he has talent, but if you think he's just one year younger than bonazzoli, and think what bonazzoli was doing for us a year ago... Without a doubt a lot of it is club hype, because theyre trying to build him into a Neymar - with facebook and twitter and all that shit

Personally, I would rather we develop a mo fo then let the hype justify itself.

 

[Batman]

Yeah, dude still doesnt have a wikipedia page, which means he still hasnt played a single competitive match for Milan, and I've already heard about him since two years or three. I dont know, he is still too young though, the hype worked with Neymar so who knows.

 

[.h.]

well, neymar was playing regular first team football before he had huge hype...

 

[thatdude]

Yeah, dude still doesnt have a wikipedia page, which means he still hasnt played a single competitive match for Milan, and I've already heard about him since two years or three. I dont know, he is still too young though, the hype worked with Neymar so who knows.

http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hachim_Mastour

He does, but the argument remains the same.

I just wonder how he would look now as a player if he joined Inter instead like he was supposed to.

 

[.h.]

I dont think he was referring to Portugese wikipedia

 

[Batman]

well, neymar was playing regular first team football before he had huge hype...

Yeah but in the Brazilian league, he was hyped around 2011 and he played an average Copa America, odds were high I think that he would fail once he moves to Europe.

- - - Updated - - -

http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hachim_Mastour

He does, but the argument remains the same.

I just wonder how he would look now as a player if he joined Inter instead like he was supposed to.

I meant the English site, cause players who hasnt played a competitive game for their senior team usually dont have an English wikipedia.

 

[uzhang]

I dont know what answer we could possibly give that would satisfy you
A youth defender?

 

[Shaun]

Mastour injured his knee. He'll be out for a while

 

[bandiera]

The Viareggio cup is a very important youth tournament. The first time inter won it in 1962, mazzola and boninsegna, who would both go on to captain Inter, were in the starting lineup. The second time in 1971, we had Oriali and Bordon in the starting lineup. The third time in 1986, our squad didn't have anyone that made the jump. However, our opponents in the final, Sampdoria, started Gianluca Pagliuca, Antonio Paganin, and Maurizio Ganz, all of whom would later play for Inter. In 2002, we had Goran Pandev. In 2008, we had Destro, Balotelli, Santon, and Donati. And in 2011, we had Caldirola, Bardi, and Faraoni.

However, it's still worth remembering Italian youth development has been in decline, so it's not fair to judge the quality of the tournament in the present based on its quality in the past.

also, its wrong to judge a team and its players at the youth level with the trophies they've won, but winning or even challenging for trophies can be a big step in the development of a young player. it helps create a winning mentality which is the most important thing at the highest level. That's the main objection with the belgian youth model ie. eliminate league tables.

lastly, i agree its a major accomplishment to have fully homegrown players in the primavera (who have spent their entire youth careers at Inter) like bonazzoli, palazzi, sciacca etc. The next step is how we deal with the transition to the highest level. Any updates on the prato experiment?

 

[Pimpin]

i can't help it but think of bandiera as the mini version of browha, u know like samsung s5, and s5 mini, or xperia and xperia compact.


nvm

 

[bandiera]

Just wanted to add I also disagree with the idea that "Inter has one of the best youth systems in Europe". there are literally a shitload of european clubs with better academies.

at the end of the day, ours seems decent, and i think the recent changes that focus on actually developing young players (vs saying "who is 18 and has played a game in serie c, sign him") are really impressive. still lots of work to be done though.

 

[ElDuccio]

In Europe not. But maybe in Italy, maybe the best!

 

[bandiera]

tell that to atalanta and roma.

i dont know anything about the other youth academies to make a judgement after those two, but even if we were third, its more that italian youth development is at a low and i believe we have one of if not the biggest youth budget in italian football.

actually developing young players at inter was non existent until a few years ago. we're only starting to see those changes in action now.

 

[thatdude]

You can argue whether we put out the best individual talents, which is the main purpose of a youth academy. However, I think when it comes to teams we are certainly top of he heap in Italy over the last 5 years. We are arguably top 10 in Europe.

 

[bandiera]

we barely developed anyone. instead, we just spent more money on youth transfers than other Italian clubs. And no, we are without a doubt behind roma and atalanta in Italy over the last 5 years. zaza, gabbiadini, de luca, baselli, bonaventura, consigli, sportiello, montolivo, pazzini from bergamo. on the other hand, cerci, aquilani, florenzi, romagnoli from roma...

Who have we actually produced? off the top of my head, probably only caldirola and bonazzoli. I don't think cheap scouting for 17, 18, 19 year olds is what a youth academy is about. its wrong because the players lack continuity with each other, its capital intensive (spending the majority of the youth budget on transfers vs upgrading facilities etc, and purchasing many mediocre youth players vs a few of the better youth players to fill in the gaps). also, there's no true "bandiera" that way.

in short, it bypasses all the reasons to have a youth academy other than the idea that you can gamble to get average players for very little. and even so, transfers at that level are limited by FIFA's restrictions.

top 10 in europe? ahead of barca, ajax, sporting, dinamo, psv, feyenoord, olympique lyonnais, sochaux, rennes, southampton, anderlecht? definitely not.

 

[thatdude]

Bandiera did you read my post? I said you could argue we haven't put out actual talents, which is the main purpose of a youth team. But our TEAMS have gotten the best results across all age groups in Italy during the past 4-5 years. Numerous domestic trophies, Viareggio, and even a Next Gen title.

 

[bandiera]

I see now that I completely misinterpreted your post.

sorry about that.