Mauro Icardi

[Armes]

advanced potions uh. poacher - because he's linking up and he always misses the easy ones but somehow manages to score some absurd goals.

 

[Shaun]

Juve just signed Mandzukic who in my opinion is a poacher. It'll be interesting to see how he does, but I definitely feel thus far Juve have been far less dangerous as a whole, and have struggled in possession. Although, they're missing too many players currently to make a definitive judgement.

I agree with a lot of the statements that Bandiera has made. I honestly feel that a lot of Icardi's limitations do cost us a lot in terms of total goals. I certainly don't think our distinct lack of goals on the counter attack since Icardi arrival has been only down to tactical decisions by Mazzarri and Mancini.

Although, Icardi has shown some improvement in his overall game in recent times so I don't want to talk shit on him right now. So I'm going to take a wait-and-see approach when it comes to making further judgements.

The fact is that there will always be very contrasting opinions about pure goalscorers/poachers. Some/most will definitely stick to the, "he's a striker, his only job is to score" adage. I personally feel that is outdated in modern football. Only time will tell, but you would probably have to put Icardi in the Real Madrid side or something to really get a real indication of what a striker with less dimension but better finishing adds to a top tier team. My guess is that they would score less. And I feel if Icardi went to most top echelon clubs he would be used as an impact player.

Anyway, this is all conjecture, and/or very difficult to prove.

 

[bandiera]

no doubt icardi right now in place of benzema would cost madrid a lot of goals. mandzukic is quite limited but at the very least he has hold up play and a defensive work rate icardi lacks.

to be clear im not trying to talk shit about mauro. he is a young player with a lot of potential and its clear he is working on his all round game, but i completely disagree he has the most important role in our attack, he might be more prolific but he doesn't do all the other stuff a striker should be doing. he did a better job than everyone else last season but that isn't saying much. right now, jovetic has a much more important role because he is more complete. an attack built around a poacher will always be shit. i also feel icardi is more replaceable than kovacic because of his limitations. a more well rounded striker that isnt as clinical might score less goals but the team would definitely score more.

a strikers job is not only to score because this isn't 1995. words like "striker" are deceiving. it makes more sense to say the last man in the attack's job is not only to score. positions/formations etc are not set in stone as they were decades ago.

icardi needs to improve his all round game for him to be close to an elite player. using archaic examples like inzaghi to justify him is ridiculous. i can see how a poacher with killer instinct could be perfect in cup comps behind an amazing team to finish the few chances he gets, but not as a big part of a team or a starter in the league.

 

[Aliano]

Considering the loan payment that we should pay next summer, I expect him to be sold because of the same reasons that Kova was sold.

 

[JJM]

FORZA EL NUEVO CAPITANO! :epicwin::slick:

 

[Pharaoh]

a poacher is not important to the machine. take him out and the machine still works fine. an important player to a team the kind of player that you take out and the machine falls apart. those are the players that really matter to a team. jovetic is that player for us right now. with icardi in his place, we probably wouldn't have 6 points right now.

i mentioned all the best teams in the world. if i missed anyone that actually uses a poacher, please enlighten me because i cant think of anyone. and diego costa is not a poacher. may not be as complete as an aguero or a suarez, but he is not a poacher. icardi has shown big signs of improvement in his all round game but hes definitely not the most important player here because he is so limited.

Bayern has Lewandowski, they also have other wingers that can score as well. But Lewandowski is pretty much a poacher. And that's garbage dude, poachers are important to a team. Finishing is such a huge talent that not a lot of players have. Arsenal have been DESPERATE for a 20 goal scorer since RVP left, and if they got one they'd probably win the EPL.

And IDK where you're getting Icardi as being limited? You're stuck with Icardi in the first half of last season. 2nd half of the season he was helping create and holding up the ball. The problem was that there was nobody else to support him besides guarin, which you love to say wastes chances. So taking your own argument with proper support and other players who can consistently finish, look for Icardi's numbers to increase with improved attacking options. 6 assists in our shit squad is pretty good for a striker.

im not saying icardi is a bad player or he wont be a good player in the future. im saying that he is not the most important player at the club and i dont believe he ever will be. if the team is losing out on goals because they are creating oppurtunities but have a striker that can't score, that's a different story to if the poacher is the most important player in the team which can't do shit without him. all that means is that the team's gameplan is garbage because only one player is going into goalscoring positions.

How can you say that with a straight face while watching Arsenal play? Or even Man U the past 3 weeks. The rest of the team is doing their part by creating chances and getting in good positions for goal scoring opportunities yet they just don't have the finishing to put it in the back of the net. A good finisher is essential, just look at fucking Eto'o the year after our treble. He single handedly carried the scoring load. Yeah he was a little more active helping other people score but the first half before pazzini came, it was alllllll eto'o

the rason why tactics have evolved in the first place is because the newer ones are better than the older ones. eg total football and zonal marking was a response to man marking and catenaccio. thats why people dont use old tactics, because they literally dont work well anymore, newer ones have been designed to be better than older ones. if la grande inter or madrid of di stefano played nowadays, they would get raped.

the fact what they did was "different" is not the reason it was successful. the fact they were more progressive and adapted to the changing nature of the game is what those teams, inter, ajax, barca, did. arbitrarily using archaic tactics has nothing to do with that. in that case, why dont we man mark and use a 5 man defense with a libero like we did under herrera because it's "different"? why don't we build the next 10 years of our team around two 30 year olds? "real madrid won five european cups doing that"

This is the biggest bullshit you've typed out yet dude. No way in hell tactics evolve because they're widespread better than everything else. Tactics evolve for a WIDE variety of reasons. Ease of implementation, personnel available, paradigm shifts, and to be honest what's the latest hot thing that works.

Tactics become cookie cutter in eras. Every time a team with a great run comes into the picture with unique tactics, immediately people are going to try and mimic it, it's only natural.

And you're saying it like "new tactics" have never been seen before. 4-4-2 has been timeless and implemented for at least 20 years. Yet Benitez still uses it.

Catenaccio was never mainstream, EVER. Because it was so hard to implement, it required very specific set of skills and each coach had to put a specific spin on it to make it work for his team. However a 4-3-3 or a 4-2-3-1 is not as hard to implement, they've been dissected to the core because it seems like everyone has a pair of wingers and a striker to utilize. And box to box midfielders have been around since the inception of the sport.

But saying that a 4-3-3 would destroy a Catenaccio setup is just ignorant dude. Maybe's BARCA's 4-3-3 would give a herrera's catenaccio fits, but generalizing it like this doesn't make sense at all.

There are some formations that will "counter" other formations, but I wouldn't say new formations are just better than older ones.

I agree with a lot of the statements that Bandiera has made. I honestly feel that a lot of Icardi's limitations do cost us a lot in terms of total goals. I certainly don't think our distinct lack of goals on the counter attack since Icardi arrival has been only down to tactical decisions by Mazzarri and Mancini.

Although, Icardi has shown some improvement in his overall game in recent times so I don't want to talk shit on him right now. So I'm going to take a wait-and-see approach when it comes to making further judgements.

Would you say Lewandowski's limitations cost bayern goals? Since his passing mediocre and his hold up play is non existant?

 

[bandiera]

will reply soon. basically everything you said is literally not true. "lewandowski a poacher" "teaams just copy other teams in vogue that's how it works" "442 is a timeless tactic" "catenaccio was never mainstream" "teams that don't have strikers that can score lack poachers" "icardi is well rounded" "teams wouldn't destroy catenaccio nowadays" do you even know how catenaccio works? do you realize 442 is a formation not a tactic? do teams use a number 10 and a destroyer in the middle of the park anymore like in the 90s? no. tactics evolve because they get better. for example, everyone started to use 3 man defense in Serie A to stretch out the lack of width of 4-3-1-2 which was popular before.

if teams that can't score goals put poachers in their place, the striker would score more goals but no doubt the team would score less as a whole, yes. just because they need a srtiker that can score does not mean they need a poacher. have you seen how much welbeck offers other than goalscoring? thats why arsenal bought him in the first place. icardi is not well rounded. a few good games where he showed improvement does not change the fact he is still very limited. dude literally didn't touch the ball the entire preseason. are you really giving eto'o as an examlpe of why poachers are useful? and using stats to say icardi isn't limited, come on. anyways, will have a more organized reply later.

 

[Pharaoh]

will reply soon. basically everything you said is literally not true. "lewandowski a poacher" "teaams just copy other teams in vogue that's how it works" "442 is a timeless tactic" "catenaccio was never mainstream" "teams that don't have strikers that can score lack poachers" "icardi is well rounded"

Looking forward to it, but if you consider Icardi limited, than Lewandowski is in that same boat bruh.

 

[Wings]

Lewandowski is much more well-rounded than Icardi. That being said I don't think Icardi should be considered a pure poacher, his link-up play clearly improved under Mancini.

 

[Universe]

Since no one wants to go into the Ranocchia thread, I'll repost this here and hope for better luck.

So is it official that Icardi is the new club captain? I still haven't heard any official word from the club regarding the issue but I did see Icardi posted on twitter after the Atalanta match "proud to be the new captain of this great group" etc.

Seems somewhat fucken ridiculous to me but I suppose you can't have a captain who's on the bench and not on the pitch.

 

[Ronaldo]

How come people call the likes of Mandzukic and Lewandowski poachers but disagree with calling Milito a poacher?

 

[Pharaoh]

I'm at my birthday dinner I'll look at your post later bandiera

 

[Zoro]

Happy birthday Pharaoh!

 

[Pajo]

Mandzukic, except workrate, is no better passer nor dribbler than Icardi. The guy is definition of poacher tbh.

 

[Fapuccino]

Looking forward to it, but if you consider Icardi limited, than Lewandowski is in that same boat bruh.

Eh, not really. I think Lewandowski's goal scoring record is really overrated, but his linkup is world class. Icardi has improved but is nowhere near that passing level.

Mandzukic, except workrate, is no better passer nor dribbler than Icardi. The guy is definition of poacher tbh.

I guess, but we also have to remember Mandzukic led a front line that destroyed Juve and Barca. I think he's definitely underrated, but his form has been sluggish lately.

 

[Pajo]

Im not saying Mandzukic is bad player. He is pretty good on form. Just wasnt Cholo type of forward, and i dont think he fits JuBe as well, but we will see.

 

[Universe]

Instead of talking about poaching or some shit, maybe one of you cumstains would be so kind as to answer my question

 

[ChillBro]

Instead of talking about poaching or some shit, maybe one of you cumstains would be so kind as to answer my question

sorry bro...chill bro. don't think anyone knows the answer to your question...i certainly dont

 

[I4E]

Instead of talking about poaching or some shit, maybe one of you cumstains would be so kind as to answer my question

'cumstains'

 

[Pajo]

Instead of talking about poaching or some shit, maybe one of you cumstains would be so kind as to answer my question

about the captaincy? I havent seen anything official. Sites are mixed, some like football-lineups and wiki are showing Icardi as captain, others like transfermarkt show Rano, so not really sure.