Mauro Icardi

[Ronaldo]

To my knowledge there were no reports saying we said no at first. Any chance you or anyone could find us one?

 

[.h.]

there were definitely some at the time, but tbh i cant be bothered to find it right now. they came in lower and we negotiated it up

 

[Armes]

yeah, i don't remember anything from the club itself, just wanda saying that he had refused madrid in order to stay here.

btw, is he officially captain of the team now, or just when frog is on the bench?

 

[JJM]

yeah, i don't remember anything from the club itself, just wanda saying that he had refused madrid in order to stay here.

btw, is he officially captain of the team now, or just when frog is on the bench?

OFFICIAL CAPITANO ICARDI
VICE CAPITANO MEDEL

:work:

 

[bandiera]

OFFICIAL CAPITANO ICARDI
VICE CAPITANO MEDEL

:work:

It's not official.

 

[crzdcolombian]

OFFICIAL CAPITANO ICARDI
VICE CAPITANO MEDEL

:work:

Being captain is like being a red shirt in Star Trek.....

your ass gets taken out of the team....... Naga, Guarin, Rano who else has had it since Zanetti they aren't here any more haha

 

[JJM]

[video=youtube;NWr2JNSxbHo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=15&v=NWr2JNSxbHo[/video]

 

[cloudq]

well, when real madrid ever get tired of benzema

we'll have a ready made 50 mil replacement ready

 

[Ziyad]

50 million+ Benz u mean

 

[bandiera]

Fact is a poacher like Inzaghi was never important to that Milan team. He was a big game player but that does not mean he was important to the team. Kaka, Pirlo, Seedorf, Maldini, Sheva or Nesta were so much more important than Pippo. a limited player like that will never be a vital part of the machine. take him out and the machine will still run smoothly.

most important player at the club is the player that you take out and the team struggles most without them. take pippo out and milan are still milan. similarly, weve won the last two games without icardi. while if icardi was in place of jovetic, i dont believe we would have 6 points right now.

Icardi hasnt shown enough all round ability to be talking about elite potential. hes shown it very inconsistently but its still a big question mark.. hes a poacher, he cant create chances by himself and he needs service. a player like him doesnt make a team great, he will only be great with a great team behind him.

i also love how you justify poachers by giving a very dated example (even though the example was flawed in the first place). thats like if i say we should build our future around a 30 year old talented player because madrid did it with di stefano. football has changed a lot since then bro. its very telling how much better atletico got after they sold falcao and replaced him with someone of a more well rounded skillset in diego costa. without a poacher, the team scores more goals because more players get into goalscoring positions.

look, mauro icardi is a talented young player but he was not as important or as irreplaceable to this "project" as kovacic.

/end discussion.

 

[ScottishInterista]

Fact is a poacher like Inzaghi was never important to that Milan team. He was a big game player, Kaka, Pirlo, Seedorf, Maldini, Sheva or Nesta were so much more important than Pippo. in a great team, a player that can only score goals is useful in the big games, but thats it. but he will never be a vital part of the machine. take him out and the machine will still run smoothly.

most important player at the club is the player that you take out and the team struggles most without them. weve won the last two games without icardi. while if icardi was in place of jovetic, i dont believe we would have 6 points right now.

Icardi hasnt shown enough all round ability to be talking about elite potential. hes shown it very inconsistently but its still a big question mark.. hes a poacher, he cant create chances by himself and he needs service. a player like him doesnt make a team great, he will only be great with a great team behind him.

i also love how you justify poachers by giving very dated examples (even though it was flawed in the first place). thats like if i say we should build our future around a 30 year old talented player because madrid did it with di stefano. football has changed a lot since then bro. its very telling how much better atletico got after they sold falcao and replaced him with someone of a more well rounded skillset in diego costa. without a poacher, the team scores more goals because more players get into goalscoring positions.

look, mauro icardi is a talented young player but he was not as important or as irreplaceable to this "project" as kovacic.

I stopped reading there

 

[bandiera]

I stopped reading there

look, he played a big role at milan but it was a very replaceable role. its also the nature of his role, its a critical role because his job is to score goals, but inzaghi in particular was not a critical piece to the puzzle. the irreplaeable pieces were pirlo, kaka, sheva, maldini, nesta, NOT pippo.

same thing goes for icardi. he will play a big role at inter, and he played a big role last season, but he is definitely replaceable.

a player like inzaghi does not make a team great. he needs service and a great team behind him to score. and if he doesnt get that, the team doesnt score goals because hes the only player in the position to score - vs jojo who creates space for other players with his movement and technique/dribbling, who can get into goalscoring positions but can also give service for other players to get into those positions. thats the difference. so while icardi plays one of the most important roles in the team and he might be hte most prolific, he will never be thte most important player to the club.

and football has changed a lot. name a big team in europe with a poacher??????? bayern? nope. real? nope. barca? nope. juve? nope. psg? nope. united? nope. chelsea? nope. city? nope. atletico? roma? dortmund? arnseal? who is it then? maybe no one does it because the team scores less goals and its a hindrance?

 

[.h.]

Name 5 half decent poachers in the world right now?

There aren't any. It's a dying breed, like the top class Nesta style CB. Or the DLP like Pirlo.

Just because there arent many doesnt mean EVERY TEAM IN THE WORLD wouldnt bend over to have him.

Real were so keen on taking Hernandez, and he's nothing on Icardi. Chelsea AND United have gone for Falcao in an attempt to find a new guy who can actually score. Arsenal, apparently, bid for Icardi.


The closest you might say over the last few years is like.. Mario Gomez (but he was never particularly efficient, he scored a lot but holy fuck could that man miss some easy chances), Javier Hernandez, Falcao.... There arent many, and the ones who are there are in pretty decent demand..

 

[bandiera]

Name 5 half decent poachers in the world right now?

There aren't any. It's a dying breed, like the top class Nesta style CB. Or the DLP like Pirlo.

Just because there arent many doesnt mean EVERY TEAM IN THE WORLD wouldnt bend over to have him.

Real were so keen on taking Hernandez, and he's nothing on Icardi. Chelsea AND United have gone for Falcao in an attempt to find a new guy who can actually score. Arsenal, apparently, bid for Icardi.

you ignored everything else i said in my post, but theres a reason the team that signed chicharito was leverkusen. hes also more complete than icardi from the little i saw of him at real.

falcao is more complete than icardi but in general he is a poacher. hes also on chelseas bench behind the same player that took his place at atletico after he was sold. speaks volumes that atletico turned into such a great team after selling falcao, because it made their team more complete/versatile and able to score goals from different positions.

arsenal "apparently" bid for icardi.

all big teams in europe reject poachers because they limit their play and how the team can score goals. i mean, shit, icardi doesnt even offer anything defensively.

the raeson there are no poachers isnt because they magically dissappeared, its because youth academies train strikers not to have those characteristics anymore. its a role from an older, different period of football. a lot has changed since then. same reason there are no "great" defenders, because defending has changed so much on a tactical level.

 

[Fapuccino]

Enough with this poacher shit. His link up was shit under Mazzari, but under Mancini it has been pretty decent even though it's far from world class. Youre making it sound as if every poacher is completely useless outside of scoring goals.

 

[bandiera]

Enough with this poacher shit. His link up was shit under Mazzari, but under Mancini it has been pretty decent even though it's far from world class. Youre making it sound as if every poacher is completely useless outside of scoring goals.

Most poachers aren't completely useless outside of the penalty box, but most of them aren't good enough to be able to let other players get into goalscoring positions.

my point isnt that his link up play wont improve or he wont become an elite player in the future, because i think its very possible. however, he is a poacher. he is still quite limited right now and he needs to show more of a well rounded game. without it we cant be talking about elite potential. you're right, it improved under mancini, but it wasnt enough and it wasnt consistent enough to not call him a poacher.

this discussion was that he isnt the most important player to our team (he isn't) and he wasnt more important to this project than kovacic.

 

[.h.]

you ignored everything else i said in my post, but theres a reason the team that signed chicharito was leverkusen. hes also more complete than icardi from the little i saw of him at real.

falcao is more complete than icardi but in general he is a poacher. hes also on chelseas bench behind the same player that took his place at atletico after he was sold. speaks volumes that atletico turned into such a great team after selling falcao, because it made their team more complete/versatile and able to score goals from different positions.

arsenal "apparently" bid for icardi.

all big teams in europe reject poachers because they limit their play and how the team can score goals. i mean, shit, icardi doesnt even offer anything defensively.

the raeson there are no poachers isnt because they magically dissappeared, its because youth academies train strikers not to have those characteristics anymore. its a role from an older, different period of football. a lot has changed since then. same reason there are no "great" defenders, because defending has changed so much on a tactical level.

Might it also be the fact that Falcao was sold for 60 million euros and that money was heavily reinvested in the club?

Or that Chicarito isnt all that good?

I dont dispute that there is probably emphasis moving people away from being poachers, but it doesnt mean there isnt room for poachers in today's games. You have a side that creates 20 chances a match but doesnt know how to fucking score, they'll desperately need a poacher.


And, again, a man that pretty much single handedly won a CL, calling him not decisive is just palm worthy and I think given the responses you've had on an inter forum, defending a milan legend should tell you how far off the mark you are.

 

[bandiera]

Might it also be the fact that Falcao was sold for 60 million euros and that money was heavily reinvested in the club?

Or that Chicarito isnt all that good?

I dont dispute that there is probably emphasis moving people away from being poachers, but it doesnt mean there isnt room for poachers in today's games. You have a side that creates 20 chances a match but doesnt know how to fucking score, they'll desperately need a poacher.


And, again, a man that pretty much single handedly won a CL, calling him not decisive is just palm worthy and I think given the responses you've had on an inter forum, defending a milan legend should tell you how far off the mark you are.

he was decisive in the big games, he was not decisive at all to that milan team.

try to understand what im saying. the most decisive role is not the most important role. in that case, matri and quagliarella, not pirlo, were the more important roles at juve. inzaghi was very replacaeable as a player in that team.

if you cant score goals, you dont need a poacher. you need a striker that can finish but that doesnt have to be a poacher. there is no room for a player that can only score in a team at the very highest level because it limits other players from getting into goalscoring positions. you score less. re inzaghi, at the end of the day you're giving an archaic example to justify an archaic role.

saying "people disagree with you on an inter forum about a milan player, so you youre probably wrong" is a really generic argument. in that case everyone should stop talking shit about my claims re calciopoli, juve, and massimmo, angelomoratti when it comes to cheating. most of the arguments youre giving are generic, anyways. "milan won the cl with a poacher, so a poacher is good" "icardi scores a lot of goals so hes the most important player to the team"

as i said, the fact atletico became such a better team after falcao left says it all. money was reinvested into the club? into who exactly? gimenez, who didnt play a minute that season, alderweild who didnt play and was loaned out, guilavogui who didnt play and was loaned out, david villa for 5 mill, and demichelis for free who they sold in the same window to city. lol.

 

[ScottishInterista]

look, he played a big role at milan but it was a very replaceable role. its also the nature of his role, its a critical role because his job is to score goals, but inzaghi in particular was not a critical piece to the puzzle. the irreplaeable pieces were pirlo, kaka, sheva, maldini, nesta, NOT pippo.

Take an ice cold finisher out of a team like that and the crucial goals dry up. If you take Icardi as a recent example for our team and compare him to Kovacic (as that is what the previous point was about) even though they play differing roles they were both crucial to that team. However Kovacic was very much an unfinished product and had not developed into the player who well all know he should become. Now Icardi whilst not a finished product has a lot less rougher edges and is there to score in important situations where other would fail. Also didn't they did fine without Shevckenko.

same thing goes for icardi. he will play a big role at inter, and he played a big role last season, but he is definitely replaceable.

Name one 22 year old who could score those goals that we could reasonably get. Neither one of Kova or Icardi were entirely replaceable but Mancini's system relies far less on Kova than it would on Icardi and Icardi would make a bigger impact on this season where CL is a must than Kova would for us

a player like inzaghi does not make a team great. he needs service and a great team behind him to score. and if he doesnt get that, the team doesnt score goals because hes the only player in the position to score - vs jojo who creates space for other players with his movement and technique/dribbling, who can get into goalscoring positions but can also give service for other players to get into those positions. thats the difference. so while icardi plays one of the most important roles in the team and he might be hte most prolific, he will never be the most important player to the club.

First of all that Milan side was a great side and you saying that everything went through him only proves that he was an important part of the team unlike the Pazzini you make him out to be.

and football has changed a lot. name a big team in europe with a poacher??????? bayern? nope. real? nope. barca? nope. juve? nope. psg? nope. united? nope. chelsea? nope. city? nope. atletico? roma? dortmund? arnseal? who is it then? maybe no one does it because the team scores less goals and its a hindrance?

How many teams played with a false number nine before Messi became one of them, how many managers done what Herrera done during the 60's outside of Italy? Football is won by being different not following the crowd. Also notice how you only mentioned top top teams who have deep pockets, excellent youth system and an argument could be made for costa being a poacher

 

[bandiera]

Take an ice cold finisher out of a team like that and the crucial goals dry up. If you take Icardi as a recent example for our team and compare him to Kovacic (as that is what the previous point was about) even though they play differing roles they were both crucial to that team. However Kovacic was very much an unfinished product and had not developed into the player who well all know he should become. Now Icardi whilst not a finished product has a lot less rougher edges and is there to score in important situations where other would fail. Also didn't they did fine without Shevckenko.

Name one 22 year old who could score those goals that we could reasonably get. Neither one of Kova or Icardi were entirely replaceable but Mancini's system relies far less on Kova than it would on Icardi and Icardi would make a bigger impact on this season where CL is a must than Kova would for us

First of all that Milan side was a great side and you saying that everything went through him only proves that he was an important part of the team unlike the Pazzini you make him out to be.

How many teams played with a false number nine before Messi became one of them, how many managers done what Herrera done during the 60's outside of Italy? Football is won by being different not following the crowd. Also notice how you only mentioned top top teams who have deep pockets, excellent youth system and an argument could be made for costa being a poacher

a poacher is not important to the machine. take him out and the machine still works fine. an important player to a team the kind of player that you take out and the machine falls apart. those are the players that really matter to a team. jovetic is that player for us right now. with icardi in his place, we probably wouldn't have 6 points right now.

a poacher can never make a team great on their own which is why they are never the most important players in a team. you can not build a great team around a poacher because in that case no one else except the striker will be able to score goals. it makes your play predictable and if other players try to get into those positions, you'll be playing with ten men. as a result, the team scores much less goals.

under mancini, icardi did not have the most important tactical role here, which was kovacic or hernanes because they were given more freedom, but mauro was very prolific in his role(even though he was lacking in all the things strikers should be doing other than score). that does not mean he was the most important player to inter.

quite honestly i think the kova-icardi discussion is a false dillemma because we didnt need to sell either of them. both of them should have been part of our future. we could've just spent less than the ~120 mill we have committed to spend. granted, as i said before, kondogbia and perisic for kovacic isnt that bad right now, but its very disappointing because i feel mateo was by far our most important player long term.

milan were not the same team without shevchenko, no. they definitely weren't bad without him but they weren't as good. he was a lot more important to that team than inzaghi. kaka also stepped his game up a level higher.

im not saying icardi is a bad player or he wont be a good player in the future. im saying that he is not the most important player at the club and i dont believe he ever will be. if the team is losing out on goals because they are creating oppurtunities but have a striker that can't score, that's a different story to if the poacher is the most important player in the team which can't do shit without him. all that means is that the team's gameplan is garbage because only one player is going into goalscoring positions.

selling someone who can become one of the best midfielders in the world because he doesn't fit into the garbage tactics of an average manager, and b/c he isnt as good as someone else who can help us fucking qualify in the champions league is totally retarded. even worse, weve sold kovacic and we haven't replaced him with someone better. our midfield badly lacks the qualities he offered us. we dont have anyone that can dictate play.

and as i said, that was a different time for football. that logic about being different makes little sense because with that you could justify literally anything. schelotto as our regista, jonathan as goalkeeper, palacio as the sweeper... "Football is won by being different not following the crowd."

the fact what they did was "different" is not the reason it was successful. the fact they were more progressive and adapted to the changing nature of the game is what those teams, inter, ajax, barca, did. arbitrarily using archaic tactics has nothing to do with that. in that case, why dont we man mark and use a 5 man defense with a libero like we did under herrera because it's "different"? why don't we build the next 10 years of our team around two 30 year olds? "real madrid won five european cups doing that"

the rason why tactics have evolved in the first place is because the newer ones are better than the older ones. eg total football and zonal marking was a response to man marking and catenaccio. thats why people dont use old tactics, because they literally dont work well anymore, newer ones have been designed to be better than older ones. if la grande inter or madrid of di stefano played nowadays, they would get raped.

teams score more goals nowadays from different positions and that is why a poacher is useless. in 2000 when madrid won the ucl, they scored 58 goals in the league with poachers like raul (who was even a lot more complete than inzaghi) and morientes. in 2014, they scored 104!!!!!!! That's the difference between then and now. football has changed.

i mentioned all the best teams in the world. if i missed anyone that actually uses a poacher, please enlighten me because i cant think of anyone. and diego costa is not a poacher. may not be as complete as an aguero or a suarez, but he is not a poacher. icardi has shown big signs of improvement in his all round game but hes definitely not the most important player here because he is so limited.

edit; holy fuck, long fucking post.