New rules?

[Gasparroni]

In this topic we can discuss about the new rules that can follow, and what these would mean to Inter.

- In the Serie A there will be experiences with a orange card soon. This is a card between the yellow and red card. The player must leave the field for a short time after been giving this card. I think it's a good idea in some situations that don't deserve a red card, like pulling out your shirt after scoring and wearing 1 yellow card already. Also it can cool down players who seem to be getting close to a red card.

- There are thoughts going around of bringing in 2 more referees in the game. They must stand near the goal. They don't want to use camera's during the game, because soccer must stay personal. This is the reason that has been giving. I still prefer the camera's, but at least 2 referees near the goals would make a better chance in many situations.

- The UEFA want a stop of transfers inside Europe for players who are -18 years. I think this is very positive. In this occasion the clubs must work on their own youth, build up their own talents and that can only be positive. Specially for Inter since we have a great youth.

- After many resourche the 6+5 rule could still be coming. A certain group went looking for all the rules etc and they found out that the 6+5 rule is possible and isn't against any law that would make this rule impossible. The 6+5 could still be a bit too much, so there is also a chance they would make it 7+4. Blatter is very happy with this outcome, and he is now going to look further how he can manage to get this rule trough. Ofcourse it will take some years, but the chance is big this rule will come trough.
So perhaps this can stop many of us dreaming about Agüero etc and give our own talents Balotelli, Acquafresca and many more a chance before talk negative about them.

Game on.

 

[CafeCordoba]

Orange card is a silly thought IMO. Football must stay football, not turn into ice hockey with time penalties or so. Two referees is a positive addition

- There are thoughts going around of bringing in 2 more referees in the game. They must stand near the goal. They don't want to use camera's during the game, because soccer must stay personal. This is the reason that has been giving. I still prefer the camera's, but at least 2 referees near the goals would make a better chance in many situations.

- The UEFA want a stop of transfers inside Europe for players who are -18 years. I think this is very positive. In this occasion the clubs must work on their own youth, build up their own talents and that can only be positive. Specially for Inter since we have a great youth.
Game on.

About that youth rule. That would be a good thing, big clubs would invest more on actually developing their youngsters and not buy them from other places underaged. Actually Inter has done that, so I don't know how our youth sector is so extremely great. Balotelli has been bought underaged, just like Santon. Only first team player who is a true Inter product is Bolzoni.

Partly I would like that 6+5 rule, not maybe so strict at first but something like 5+5. And the rule should state that double citizenships won't count so if player is born in Argentina, he's Argentinean and not Italian even if he has Italian passport and has a grandmother in Italy.

But on the other hand, that would be too artificial constraint. Foreign players would get discriminated too much. Homeland players would be in advantage position in trainings and squad buildup because there HAS TO BE homeland players in the starting lineup. So homeland players don't have to give their all in trainings and so because they still have the starting position.

So partly that is a good idea, but it should be developed more.

 

[Stefan]

There's no way you would be able to restrict double citenzenships Cafe. The only way would be if the EU banned it which isn't going to happen. If you introduce such a rule I can guarantee you would have huge legal problems. You can't stop people from using something which is totally legal. What do you do then with people who haven't played for a nation but qualifies for two?? Is he homegrown or foreign?

I haven't read about this clause they have found so if anyone has a link to an article I would like to read it.

 

[Gasparroni]

About that youth rule. That would be a good thing, big clubs would invest more on actually developing their youngsters and not buy them from other places underaged. Actually Inter has done that, so I don't know how our youth sector is so extremely great. Balotelli has been bought underaged, just like Santon. Only first team player who is a true Inter product is Bolzoni.

In fact, Santon is 100% a own youth product and has played in all our youth teams. We never bought him from another club. Also Acquafresca is.

Besides. This rule is partly based on what clubs do in Brazil etc. Like buying a 15 year old talent. There are some English teams who buy 10 of those Brazilians and only 1 will make it, the other 9 will be send back to there hard live in Brasil, wich will probably become even more harder. Their lives will be ruined....

It's always possible for a 13 year old player who playes at a local club near Milan to join Inter for free. Everybody can walk over to another club when they want too, but this rule is really based on buying talents in far countrys etc.

Partly I would like that 6+5 rule, not maybe so strict at first but something like 5+5. And the rule should state that double citizenships won't count so if player is born in Argentina, he's Argentinean and not Italian even if he has Italian passport and has a grandmother in Italy.

But on the other hand, that would be too artificial constraint. Foreign players would get discriminated too much. Homeland players would be in advantage position in trainings and squad buildup because there HAS TO BE homeland players in the starting lineup. So homeland players don't have to give their all in trainings and so because they still have the starting position.

So partly that is a good idea, but it should be developed more.

And see it from the other side.
To give people from your own country a good chance has nothing to do with racism. Let's say this will stop getting 10 Brazilian talents every year to Milan (for example). But they will only buy 2 of the best and 8 good of them will stay in Brazil. This will mean that the clubs in Brazil will become better because they can use their own talents, they will be able to play with good players. And for the soccer this will only be positive. There won't be just 10 teams dominating in Europe, but there will come many more teams who can keep up with the high level. All the competitions will become more excited, and that will be the main reason for this rule.

 

[CafeCordoba]

There's no way you would be able to restrict double citenzenships Cafe. The only way would be if the EU banned it which isn't going to happen. If you introduce such a rule I can guarantee you would have huge legal problems. You can't stop people from using something which is totally legal. What do you do then with people who haven't played for a nation but qualifies for two?? Is he homegrown or foreign?

I wasn't going to BAN double citizenships in EU. I meant that they wouldn't count for FIFA (UEFA) when citizenships are looked under that "6+5" rule.

 

[Gasparroni]

I haven't read about this clause they have found so if anyone has a link to an article I would like to read it.

According to legal experts, 6+5 is compatible with European law
(FIFA.com) Thursday 26 February 2009

INEA (the Institute for European Affairs) presented its conclusions on the research it has conducted into the compatibility of the 6+5 rule with European law at a press conference at the European Parliament in Brussels today, 26 February. The Inea media release can be accessed by clicking the link on the right-hand side of this story.

This study, which was carried out at FIFA's request by five professors who are all experts on European law, concludes that the number of players who are not eligible for the national team of the country of their club can indeed be regulated and limited, as this does not breach European law.

"This study confirms that we are not breaching European law in defending the 6+5 rule. On behalf of FIFA and its member associations, I would like to express my pleasure at this finding. Through 6+5, we wish to encourage the development of young players, protect national teams and maintain competitiveness and the unpredictability of results. This is why 6+5 is beneficial to football. It is also supported by the IOC and has been ratified by other team sports, such as basketball, handball, ice hockey, rugby and volleyball, which all face the same problems," said FIFA President Joseph S. Blatter.

http://www.fifa.com/aboutfifa/federation/releases/newsid=1032676.html

 

[brehme1989]

UEFA should also build on Italy's foreign transfers rule. Italian clubs can buy only one or two foreigners from non-Italian clubs. UEFA should make a universal rule of perhaps two or three foreigners coming into a new country.

 

[CafeCordoba]

In fact, Santon is 100% a own youth product and has played in all our youth teams. We never bought him from another club. Also Acquafresca is.

Besides. This rule is partly based on what clubs do in Brazil etc. Like buying a 15 year old talent. There are some English teams who buy 10 of those Brazilians and only 1 will make it, the other 9 will be send back to there hard live in Brasil, wich will probably become even more harder. Their lives will be ruined....

It's always possible for a 13 year old player who playes at a local club near Milan to join Inter for free. Everybody can walk over to another club when they want too, but this rule is really based on buying talents in far countrys etc.

And see it from the other side.
To give people from your own country a good chance has nothing to do with racism. Let's say this will stop getting 10 Brazilian talents every year to Milan (for example). But they will only buy 2 of the best and 8 good of them will stay in Brazil. This will mean that the clubs in Brazil will become better because they can use their own talents, they will be able to play with good players. And for the soccer this will only be positive. There won't be just 10 teams dominating in Europe, but there will come many more teams who can keep up with the high level. All the competitions will become more excited, and that will be the main reason for this rule.

I'd like to have more info on Santon, do you have some sources? I've heard from another source that Santon has come to Inter at the age of 15 or something so he isn't an Inter product if that's true. I will ask more info from that source and tell it here. I can't Italian so googling more info is hard for me.

Acquafresca has never played in any Inter academy team, he was catched from Torino (Torino was expelled and their players were released in 2005). After that he was sent on loan to Treviso and so on. He has never played a single match for any Inter academy team.

http://www.tuttomercatoweb.com/index.php?action=read&id=63101

Check your facts mate.

To that 6+5 rule, I understand your point and that's my point also. But you probably understand my second paragraph in my first post? That it would create wrong kind of competition inside the squads. But that would consider only clubs which have more foreigners than homeland players like us.

And I haven't said anything about racism. Just that it would be unfair for foreigners because of that wrong kind of competition.

 

[Forza ragazzi]

The rule of no transfers of u-18 is silly. What if a boy's parents decides to move from one part of the country to another? Shouldn't he be allowed to transfer to another club in his new local area?

And Gasparroni, Acquafresca hasn't played in our youth system.

 

[CafeCordoba]

The rule of no transfers of u-18 is silly. What if a boy's parents decides to move from one part of the country to another? Shouldn't he be allowed to transfer to another club in his new local area?

And Gasparroni, Acquafresca hasn't played in our youth system.

Yeah that is problematic indeed. Since if a boy is, let's say 15 years old. He's just a kid, he has to move with his parents. So clubs will use that for sure, they "offer" that boy's family a new work and so on if the boy is really talented and so. Actually it is happening already, many clubs are doing that. Best example is no other than Lionel Messi. Barcelona brought his family to Spain and financed the hormone treatment for Messi.

Of course that's a great opportunity for the family too if their kid develops a super star. But what if not? They will be left in that foreign country, probably to their lousy jobs and possibly totally new culture with no friends and so on.

It's pretty complicated stuff.

 

[Stefan]

I wasn't going to BAN double citizenships in EU. I meant that they wouldn't count for FIFA (UEFA) when citizenships are looked under that "6+5" rule.

And how would you accomplish that. You can't say you can't count as local because you have dual citizenship. It would be come very messy. You can't say someone can have dual citizenship but not use it for all situations.

As long as they give the clubs time to adjust to the 6+5 rule I have no major issue with it. It just means we will need to focus on our youth as we are already doing.

 

[CafeCordoba]

Actually, it's even in the Wikipedia (Italian version).

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davide_Santon

Source from that piece of info

http://www.ravennanotizie.it/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=23567&Itemid=2

He's a youth product of Ravenna.

 

[Gasparroni]

I'd like to have more info on Santon, do you have some sources? I've heard from another source that Santon has come to Inter at the age of 15 or something so he isn't an Inter product if that's true. I will ask more info from that source and tell it here. I can't Italian so googling more info is hard for me.

Acquafresca has never played in any Inter academy team, he was catched from Torino (Torino was expelled and their players were released in 2005). After that he was sent on loan to Treviso and so on. He has never played a single match for any Inter academy team.

http://www.tuttomercatoweb.com/index.php?action=read&id=63101

Check your facts mate.

To that 6+5 rule, I understand your point and that's my point also. But you probably understand my second paragraph in my first post? That it would create wrong kind of competition inside the squads. But that would consider only clubs which have more foreigners than homeland players like us.

And I haven't said anything about racism. Just that it would be unfair for foreigners because of that wrong kind of competition.

At Acquafresca I ment that he has been in our youth team, only he didn't nearly play. I can't find information about it. I know that he has always been loaned out. But in this link you can see that he has been in our youth team when he played for Italy -18: http://www.inter.it/aas/news/reader?L=it&N=24458&stringa=acquafresca Its from october 2004. And in August 2005 Inter put him to Treviso: http://www.inter.it/aas/news/reader?L=it&N=28893&stringa=acquafresca

I know that Santon started his carreer at us in 2004, so I consider him as a own product. But inter.it starts with the giovannissimi nazionali, and this are 14 and 15 year old players. Here is the proof that the 14 year young Santon scored a goal for Inter in october 2005 http://www.inter.it/aas/news/reader?L=it&N=29532&stringa=santon

And here is his full name as proove, after they won the scudetto with the team: http://www.inter.it/aas/news/reader?L=it&N=33169&stringa=santon

You see also players who are now playing in our primavera and are doing very well: Caldirola, Obi, Temolada and Destro.

 

[Stefan]

I'd like to have more info on Santon, do you have some sources? I've heard from another source that Santon has come to Inter at the age of 15 or something so he isn't an Inter product if that's true. I will ask more info from that source and tell it here. I can't Italian so googling more info is hard for me.

Acquafresca has never played in any Inter academy team, he was catched from Torino (Torino was expelled and their players were released in 2005). After that he was sent on loan to Treviso and so on. He has never played a single match for any Inter academy team.

http://www.tuttomercatoweb.com/index.php?action=read&id=63101

Check your facts mate.

To that 6+5 rule, I understand your point and that's my point also. But you probably understand my second paragraph in my first post? That it would create wrong kind of competition inside the squads. But that would consider only clubs which have more foreigners than homeland players like us.

And I haven't said anything about racism. Just that it would be unfair for foreigners because of that wrong kind of competition.

How old must the player be for you to consider him our youth team product?? If he came to Inter at 15 he is still and boy and is our youth team product imho.

 

[CafeCordoba]

And how would you accomplish that. You can't say you can't count as local because you have dual citizenship. It would be come very messy. You can't say someone can have dual citizenship but not use it for all situations.

As long as they give the clubs time to adjust to the 6+5 rule I have no major issue with it. It just means we will need to focus on our youth as we are already doing.

I see no problem of saying that. I mean that in this case, the "first" citizenship would count. It's like where you've been born or where you've been in your childhood. Not like Zanetti, who has Italian passport, so that he would go as Italian. That's wrong isn't it? That way the rule wouldn't run for its purpose which is to develop youth and make teams to represent more of their country.

Okay, Patrick Vieira is another example which would make things more complicated, because he moved to France when he was 8 years old, so it's hard to state which country he belongs to (Senegal, France). But somehow those double citizenships should be restricted because of the problem I mentioned in the first paragraph.

 

[Stefan]

I see no problem of saying that. I mean that in this case, the "first" citizenship would count. It's like where you've been born or where you've been in your childhood. Not like Zanetti, who has Italian passport, so that he would go as Italian. That's wrong isn't it? That way the rule wouldn't run for its purpose which is to develop youth and make teams to represent more of their country.

Okay, Patrick Vieira is another example which would make things more complicated, because he moved to France when he was 8 years old, so it's hard to state which country he belongs to (Senegal, France). But somehow those double citizenships should be restricted because of the problem I mentioned in the first paragraph.

a Footballer is just like a normal citizen you can't restrict his rights just because he acquired his citizenship by other means than being born there. This is like saying someone who is a citizen of the country but wasn't born there should get inferior healthcare.

 

[CafeCordoba]

a Footballer is just like a normal citizen you can't restrict his rights just because he acquired his citizenship by other means than being born there. This is like saying someone who is a citizen of the country but wasn't born there should get inferior healthcare.

This 6+5 rule isn't about some rights as a citizen, but to make football healthier. To courage clubs to develop their youth systems and make clubs to represent more their nations.

 

[Stefan]

This 6+5 rule isn't about some rights as a citizen, but to make football healthier. To courage clubs to develop their youth systems and make clubs to represent more their nations.

That my be the case but you still need to adhere to certain principles. You can't tell one guy he is different even though he has the same citizen id.

 

[Gasparroni]

That my be the case but you still need to adhere to certain principles. You can't tell one guy he is different even though he has the same citizen id.

I dont think so.

This is all about making soccer better. The club must keep their identety, and other clubs deserves better chances because the soccer is being leaded by 3 English teams at the moment, there should be much more competition. Besides the 3 English teams are leading European soccer, you can't speak about real English soccer is leading, because 90% of them are foreigners.

To give players from your own country a fair chance just belongs in soccer and it goes against no principes in my opinion. You could also say that people from their own country are gett blamed by racism because foreigners are taking away all their chances.

And when you see in soccer everybody is right, then also woman should be allowed to play in the top teams. Else that also goes against the principes that not everybody is the same citizen. (yes a crazy example, but there arent any better).

 

[Stefan]

I dont think so.

This is all about making soccer better. The club must keep their identety, and other clubs deserves better chances because the soccer is being leaded by 3 English teams at the moment, there should be much more competition. Besides the 3 English teams are leading European soccer, you can't speak about real English soccer is leading, because 90% of them are foreigners.

To give players from your own country a fair chance just belongs in soccer and it goes against no principes in my opinion. You could also say that people from their own country are gett blamed by racism because foreigners are taking away all their chances.

And when you see in soccer everybody is right, then also woman should be allowed to play in the top teams. Else that also goes against the principes that not everybody is the same citizen. (yes a crazy example, but there arent any better).

Women have their own leagues so that's hardly the same.

We will see what happens but I don't see how they will be able to say guys with dual nationality can't qualify for this.