The Suning Commerce Group

[CafeCordoba]

My point on the Oaktree loan is that in the transaction for the equity, even if we arent directly paying for the loan, the 'value' of the loan is in the equity purchase. paying 1.5billion where 415m goes on Inter's bond debt is equivalent to paying 1.5 billion where 415m goes on Inter's bond debt and 350m goes on the Oaktree loan. This is, of course, partly why the valuation for Inter is 'so high'

To be honest, I don't understand any of this.

 

[.h.]

I think the loan is factored into our valuation. Thats my point. The 850mil I said doesnt assume anything about the valuation of the club - for me fair value for the club like would be 500mil or so if the new owner is paying off Oaktree and bonds. If he's not paying off Oaktree, then thats roughly where you get Zhang's 1 billion from?

 

[.h.]

I got the point. Basically, there are no incentives for either minor investors or outright buyers, (even if Zhang wants to sell us cheap).

But I read somewhere that Inter has not used much of the 275m, which is 350m now? and Sunning did inject a few tens millions in the last two years or so? Could this mean we can refinance with a much smaller amount? (I know default is our best option, I just try to see if Zhang family have real chance to drag this situation on for another few years)

Perhaps? I really dunno, tbh.

Like, conceptually, I think they probably sat down and created a 5 year forecast and worked out what capital they'd need to cover that. They probably didnt factor in the significant plusvalenza of people like Lukaku, Hakimi, and Brozovic in that plan, nor the significant reduction in salaries we've had this summer. I could well believe that our drawdown of the facilities is quite below what we were expecting - but i just dont know for sure. There are a lot of one off exceptionals in the list, so you cant really plan around them for the future

We'll need to see. Conceptually, you're right, but if so we're paying a lot of itnerest for nothing

 

[RotterdamNerazzurri]

My point on the Oaktree loan is that in the transaction for the equity, even if we arent directly paying for the loan, the 'value' of the loan is in the equity purchase. paying 1.5billion where 415m goes on Inter's bond debt is equivalent to paying 1.5 billion where 415m goes on Inter's bond debt and 350m goes on the Oaktree loan. This is, of course, partly why the valuation for Inter is 'so high'

I'm also not sure what legal ability Zhang has to sell Inter while it's security for a loan. I'm not familiar so much with the laws in this side - it probably means immediate repayment of the loan I guess?


re Milan - yeah, indeed. Also they were quite close to profitability, and indeed were profitable this year with their CL revenue, which just changes the maths completely in terms of both what an investor is willing to pay, but also the 'pool' of investors who might consider buying the asset. And of course at that point, supply and demand come into the game which also further pads the asset valuation.

Spending 1 billion when you'll need to spend hundreds of millions more is a very narrow type of investor compared to spending 1 billion and immediately generating positive cashflow

Maybe a really stupid question, but idk much about this kind of stuff:

Can it bee Suning wants to make us profitable and clean a lot of our debts (by increasing sponsorshipdeals, but also make profit on the transfermarkt) and maybe sign some kind of deal for a new stadium? Café said our due date for our 415 debt is 2027. By increasing those debts massively (with funds gained from player sales for example), cut costs massively to make it easier to make us profitable or break even and the perspective of our own stadium, they could get a lot more for selling Inter potentially isn't it?

 

[.h.]

Maybe a really stupid question, but idk much about this kind of stuff:

Can it bee Suning wants to make us profitable and clean a lot of our debts (by increasing sponsorshipdeals, but also make profit on the transfermarkt) and maybe sign some kind of deal for a new stadium? Café said our due date for our 415 debt is 2027. By increasing those debts massively (with funds gained from player sales for example), cut costs massively to make it easier to make us profitable or break even and the perspective of our own stadium, they could get a lot more for selling Inter potentially isn't it?

Yes, they could kinda.

But, also, 'cutting costs massively' means decreasing squad quality which means less likely to be in the CL, which means revenues are at risk. That's the thing you need to balance in all of this game - the valuation of the club is driven by the value of the players, and our future revenues. Risk the players too much, and our valuation decreases rapidly - which is why I was *freaking* out when I thought we really risked top 4, because the impact of that massively outweighs the impact of making the CL final

As a pure concept, yes, there's a world where Zhang makes the club profitable and somehow pays off all the debts. That being said, as it stands right now, they'd need like 700mil 'profit' out of the club to pay off the debts, and football clubs in general arent historically great at turning massive profits consistently - I personally struggle to see how that is a viable path forwards for them.

 

[CafeCordoba]

Is all the money from the Oaktree loan given to Inter some kind of debt too? And if so, at which interest rate?

We need to separate the 415m debt and the Oaktree debt. 415m debt is something we pay interests every year, almost 25-30m. That's the cost of that money. So if we want to get rid of that annual cost in 2027, we (the club) need to have 415m in the pocket at the time. I would say that's not gonna happen (unless the club is sold).

Oaktree loan is NOT Inter's loan. It is Zhang's loan. Ie. what is owed to Oaktree doesn't come, at least directly, from Inter. And AFAIK Inter haven't used all of that money, I read there's like almost half of it left.

 

[.h.]

Is all the money from the Oaktree loan given to Inter some kind of debt too? And if so, at which interest rate?

We need to separate the 415m debt and the Oaktree debt. 415m debt is something we pay interests every year, almost 25-30m. That's the cost of that money. So if we want to get rid of that annual cost in 2027, we (the club) need to have 415m in the pocket at the time. I would say that's not gonna happen (unless the club is sold).

Oaktree loan is NOT Inter's loan. It is Zhang's loan. Ie. what is owed to Oaktree doesn't come, at least directly, from Inter. And AFAIK Inter haven't used all of that money, I read there's like almost half of it left.

Yes, but as far as a transaction is concerned, the valuation of the club will either feature in repaying the debt in full, or will be equity we're buying out.

Like, simplistically, money goes from Oaktree to Suning Sports Co, Suning Sports Co can either inject it into Inter as equity, or loan it to Inter. If its a loan to Inter, then it is NOT in our valuation equity but its still a financial quantity the new ownership would have to repay. If it's injected into Inter, then thats fine, but its up to 415mil in equity that the new owners would repay anyway.

I think from a materiality perspective it doesnt make a difference that its not an Inter loan as such - its secured against Inter, it's being used to finance Inter, etc. I wonder if a company isnt allowed to get a loan secured against its own equity perhaps? Im not sure actually. Never thought about it.

 

[Nerazzurri_Ninja]

We need money, power and respect

 

[bubba zanetti]

We need money, power and respect

Change the club or wait till chinese leave. Better pick first option cause we wont get rid of these parasites any time soon.

 

[.h.]

parasites - people who've invested hundreds of millions of their own money into the club and never taken a single penny out

i dont think you have a clue what a parasite is.

 

[Fitzy]

Someone please make these guys fuck off

Maybe Samardzic and Marotta are thinking two steps ahead

 

[bubba zanetti]

parasites - people who've invested hundreds of millions of their own money into the club and never taken a single penny out

i dont think you have a clue what a parasite is.

So club and fans can be their hostages? Gtfo

 

[.h.]

So club and fans can be their hostages? Gtfo

how are we their hostages?

They keep pumping more money into Inter (reduced in the last few years, but still). They just try to drive us towards being net zero - which, guess what, many clubs are trying to do atm.

You have a fucked up perspective on the world. If you ever get held hostage, I hope you arent surprised when the hostage taker doesnt just offer to do your laundry or something but actually wants something from you

 

[kurt0411]

Incredible….

 

[.h.]

Incredible….

What?

 

[Mikele]

Does anybody knows, what is cost only for players (monthly, year), and what is cost for other hundreds of people employed in the club?

 

[bubba zanetti]

What?

For bringing Arnautović for 10mil and meanhwile saying fuck off to Samardzic. This club is a joke.

 

[Mikele]

For bringing Arnautović for 10mil and meanhwile saying fuck off to Samardzic. This club is a joke.

Even bigger joke than this, is selling Brozovic for 15M or so.

 

[CafeCordoba]

For bringing Arnautović for 10mil and meanhwile saying fuck off to Samardzic. This club is a joke.

These two deals are not related in any way and the Samardzic deal is not being stalled because of financial issues.

 

[.h.]

These two deals are not related in any way and the Samardzic deal is not being stalled because of financial issues.

no need to ruin his made up toxic narrative