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Even bigger joke than this, is selling Brozovic for 15M or so.
People are not seeing the whole picture regarding the Brozoviv sale. He is now an injury-prone player. he didn't behave very professionally when he was pushing to play in the world cup and was then injured because of it for half the season. for that he got 6 million per season. We wanted to get rid of him since the dispute between him and the management about the world cup. apart from that, he probably didn't mind the transfer, since everyone knows that he has bitcoin and gambling habits.
 

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As far as I can see every football club owner is a sugar daddy owner. No one is making what they are spending, except those who must because their owners got screwed over somehow and now are broke. We are in the latter group.

Imo we need to break even not beucase it's good or healthy, but because we don't have an owner equipped for this moment.
 

.h.

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As far as I can see every football club owner is a sugar daddy owner. No one is making what they are spending, except those who must because their owners got screwed over somehow and now are broke. We are in the latter group.

Imo we need to break even not beucase it's good or healthy, but because we don't have an owner equipped for this moment.
Milan are profitable. Italian clubs have basically lost their sugar daddies (see what I posted about a couple days ago) and all of them will be pushing towards cost neutrality in the next few years.
 

Strale

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Milan are profitable. Italian clubs have basically lost their sugar daddies (see what I posted about a couple days ago) and all of them will be pushing towards cost neutrality in the next few years.

I'll go back and read. Let's see if they can win like that. I would bet they won't.
 

ADRossi

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Milan are profitable. Italian clubs have basically lost their sugar daddies (see what I posted about a couple days ago) and all of them will be pushing towards cost neutrality in the next few years.
Milan were seized by a creditor and had their debt magically erased. Not a good example for future profitability.
 

.h.

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Milan were seized by a creditor and had their debt magically erased. Not a good example for future profitability.
So? My point is they're still being run profitably atm. The debt was also not carried by Milan but by their owner

My point is that it's possible to run a club with revenues exceeding wages and transfer costs. Milan demonstrate that, and that was even before the Tonali sale. This year is a very risky one for them though, they could be incredible or a disaster.

Juve, Roma, Lazio, us, etc are all striving towards what Milan have achieved. I think if you ignored our debt we probably aren't a million miles off atm
 

ADRossi

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So? My point is they're still being run profitably atm. The debt was also not carried by Milan but by their owner

My point is that it's possible to run a club with revenues exceeding wages and transfer costs. Milan demonstrate that, and that was even before the Tonali sale. This year is a very risky one for them though, they could be incredible or a disaster.

Juve, Roma, Lazio, us, etc are all striving towards what Milan have achieved. I think if you ignored our debt we probably aren't a million miles off atm
You act as if having no meaningful interest payments doesn't impact their profitability, lol
 

.h.

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You act as if having no meaningful interest payments doesn't impact their profitability, lol
It has an impact on how much profit they'd make but they'd be profitable with the same level of debt knter is carrying still. Much less so, but still profitable.
 

.h.

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FWIW just some data
I finally cared enough to do a bit of a deep dive on our 21/22 balance sheet, available here:


You can see on page 17 and 18 the overall income and cost structure for the group - revenue in 21/22 (not the deloitte definition, just to be clear, which doesnt include exceptionals) was 440mil euros, of which 105mil was from plusvalenza on Hakimi and Lukaku. Our TV revenue decreased 40mil (I assume this is because of the spillover of Serie A matches maybe but could also just be general depreciation of TV rights in Italy). We have a big bucket of 'other revenues' which isnt clear to me, but I suspect that's something around insurance as in 21 it gave us 75mil euros and then in 22 it was down to 44mil (e.g. the match day revenue insurance we all discussed)

Costs - we spent 218mil euros on wages for players, and then theres another 125mil in amortisation. It'll be interesting to see what the 22/23 books look like whenever they come out.

Costs, in general, decreased a bit - in 20/21 we spent 568mil euros on an income of 364mil euros, in 21/22 we spent 528mil on an income of 440mil. What is NOT included in those fixugres is cost of financing - so, e.g., interest. That took our 20/21 result to -246m euros, and 21/22 to -140mil euros.

With these numbers in mind, its quite possible that 22/23 becomes dominated by interest. I suspect - but we'll have to see - that interest alone wont be the thing that swings profit/loss for us, but I think it will probably be the majority of the loss. We'll have to see.

As ever, no sign of any dividend/etc out from the club to our ownership. To stress the point, Inter loses money hand over fist and requires significant ongoing financing from ownership to operate, otherwise we'd go bankrupt very quickly.


It's also worth being aware (pg1, 4th paragraph) that there were 75mil cash injection from Zhang (presumably out of Oaktree loan) in 2021, which 15mil of was converted into equity on 31st May 21. I suspect when the next books come out we'll see a bit more d2e conversion, but in general, the repayment of those loans is probably what gives Zhang some ability to repay Oaktree.




edit

One thing I didnt notice first time round - our write downs are a significant part as well. We all know that we used the summer of 22 and 21 to try to offload players we didnt want (like JM, Nainggolan, etc), and we also wrote off sponsorship money that was never received, but accrued in the balance sheet

Write downs for 20-21 amounted to 56mil euros, and for 21-22, they amouned to 41mil euros.


Player salaries arent broken out separately here, but, our personnel costs + amortisation of 341m euros per year is 78% of our revenue - and that's massively skewed because of Lukaku/Hakimi plusvalenza. If you took that away, we'd be at 102% which is in breach of the new FFP regulations - I think we need to be down at 70% within the next 3 or so seasons, fyi.


Basically this club spends SO MUCH MORE THAN IT MAKES that we need to plusvalenza a Lukaku and Hakimi every year to be FFP compliant. Of course that's overly simplistic - our wages and amortisation is dropping rapidly at the moment (386m in 21, 341m in 22, I'd expect it to be about 320-340m in 23, and this summer will have decreased significantly)
 
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brehme1989

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Can't bother to read the club's books while on vacation. But on what exactly are we paying so much interest?
Is that the bond? And who exactly subscribed to the bond?
 

.h.

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Can't bother to read the club's books while on vacation. But on what exactly are we paying so much interest?
Is that the bond? And who exactly subscribed to the bond?
I think its a bit of both - bonds and loans

Have a look on page 16, you're probably more expert on this stuff than I am - https://www.inter.it/media/download...inancial Statements_FY ended 30 June 2022.pdf

But as of end of year 22, we were carrying 408m in bonds (but that was refinanced), payable >12 months, and 81m in shareholder loans (Which is the oaktree loan but 'passed through').

There's no info - at least from me looking quickly - on who is subscribed to the bond
 

brehme1989

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I wasn’t expecting to find that in the books.

I was kinda wondering if Suning is the one who [mostly] subscribed to the bond using the Oaktree fund, because when it came out I heard that not many wanted to touch it.

If that's pretty much what's been done, it's pretty awful :lol:
 

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our wages and amortisation is dropping rapidly at the moment (386m in 21, 341m in 22, I'd expect it to be about 320-340m in 23, and this summer will have decreased significantly)
if these 300+ numbers are true, than all of the wages publiced in media for every single players, are false. Because they are way more lower if we sums up them individually or if we take the GDS numbers at every season-beginning. WAY MORE LOWER.
 

.h.

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if these 300+ numbers are true, than all of the wages publiced in media for every single players, are false. Because they are way more lower if we sums up them individually or if we take the GDS numbers at every season-beginning. WAY MORE LOWER.
these figures will include all the staff salaries as well. scouts, youth team, coaches, directors, etc etc etc.

Against the 'advertised' figure, that means about 60mil euros a year that isnt carried on salary wages, etc

We have an average of about 500 employees - less 25 for the first team squad so 475. That's an average salary of 125k euros per employee, which isnt that insane I guesas if you consider what we probably pay Marotta, Conte, Inzaghi, and the other directors

You probably can take 50% of that 60m out for the various directors, which then means like an average of 63k euros per employee
 

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current squad salary is around 110 million gross.... i cant understand how will be triple-figure from that.
 

.h.

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current squad salary is around 110 million gross.... i cant understand how will be triple-figure from that.
the numbers above are for season 21-22


this website seems fairly accurate and i used their numbers for 21-22 in my analysis above

note, i included amortisation of players in my figures too. thats like 100-150mil a year as well.
 

.h.

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oh also another interesting thing

it looks like we've only drawn down about 75 mil of the Oaktree loan, btw. I suspect that's 'unexpected gains' from Lukaku and Hakimi and Onana have helped to reduce how much we needed the loan by. That loan is made to Inter at 8%, so in terms of our balance sheet, we only accrue interest on the loan that was made, rather than the overall Oaktree 275m (?) loan at 8% interest.

How Great Horizons SPA plan to pay off the Oaktree loan is kinda irrelevant for us - in terms of our direct balance sheet, we only accrue interst on what we've been sent.
 

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So the money from the Oaktree loan given to Inter is actually something Inter needs to pay interest? Damn.
 

.h.

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So the money from the Oaktree loan given to Inter is actually something Inter needs to pay interest? Damn.
Well its exactly what is expected right - those loans are passed through in effect

im just glad we dont have to pay interest on the totality of the loan!
 
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