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Besnik

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He's replying random people in the Twitter as well :D
 

CafeCordoba

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He's replying random people in the Twitter as well :D
Twitter is a different game. You can't even send private messages to him in Twitter without the subscription (neither in LinkedIn tho but I got the free trial :D)

My guess is he replied to me after I contacted the reporter who made interview with Zilliacus in the summer and told her to send my message to him. I sense the Finnish angle here.
 

Besnik

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Twitter is a different game. You can't even send private messages to him in Twitter without the subscription (neither in LinkedIn tho but I got the free trial :D)

My guess is he replied to me after I contacted the reporter who made interview with Zilliacus in the summer and told her to send my message to him. I sense the Finnish angle here.

Sure but last time I checked on his Twitter, he looked quite active and also replying to people. Sending private messages is another thing, but he probably likes to attract attention in these tweets from fans since he was linked to eventual sale of Inter.

Doesn't strike me as a competent guy to take Inter under his ownership, but I know shit about business haha.
 

brehme1989

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Motherfucker, Zilliacus actually replied to me in Linkedin!

He said he's not giving any new interviews at this point but can return if the situation changes.
Told ya
 

Cane

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Some highlights (financial-specific notes second half of story):

---------------------------------------------------

How bad is it?

Shortly after Oaktree propped up Inter via Grand Tower, Zhang’s father resigned as chairman of Suning.com. He lost control of the company following a government-led bailout and his net worth fell from $8.4billion in 2020 to $345m, according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index.

Zhang Jindong’s last visit to Milan was four years ago. He has not returned since China and Italy came out of lockdown. It’s a stark contrast with Milan’s owner, Gerry Cardinale, who was at San Siro to watch his team play Paris Saint-Germain in the Champions League, his fourth game of the season.

This matters when it comes to the joint Cattedrale project to redevelop the stadium shared by Inter and Milan, San Siro, which has gone cold. San Siro has been designated as a venue for the 2026 Winter Olympics, which the city of Milan is co-hosting with Cortina d’Ampezzo. The ground is now a listed building and cannot be touched.

But, as the mayor of Milan, Beppe Sala, said in 2021, “until Inter’s destiny is cleared up”, he would harbour some reservations about giving the project the go-ahead as “I cannot entrust a district of the city, for such a long period, to companies whose future ownership is not certain”.

Frustrated at the slow pace, Milan are now going it alone outside the city limits in San Donato and the club’s CEO, Giorgio Furlani, hopes Milan’s own stadium will be ready in five years.

Steven Zhang, meanwhile, is being chased by China Construction Bank (CCBA), the sixth largest bank in the world, for more than $250million in unpaid debts.

Court filings in the Southern District of New York seen by The Athletic take us to the Caribbean in 2019 and the offshore tax haven of the British Virgin Islands. Here, companies “Zhang owned and controlled”, Great Matrix and Great Momentum, acquired a 65 per cent interest in one of the family business’ subsidiaries, Suning Xiaodian.

In 2020, Zhang borrowed money from CCBA, taking out a $165million loan and an $85m bond, to refinance some of the debt incurred in that transaction. The monies were due in September 2021, but CCBA called them in after the ripple effect caused by “multiple events of default” in “certain other bank loans” totalling approximately $1.7bn at Suning.com, the e-commerce arm of the Zhang business empire, according to its audited financial statements published on May 12, 2021.

In legal action brought before the High Court of Hong Kong, CCBA produced paperwork saying Zhang was personally liable for the $250m debt incurred by Great Matrix in the 2020 refinancing operation. In his defence, Zhang claimed he was neither involved in nor aware of the deal and that his signatures were forged. His argument was rejected.

The Honorable Mr Justice Anthony Chan granted summary judgment in favour of CCBA. “I am unable to accept that Zhang has shown a believable defence of forgery,” he said. “His evidence, assessed against the undisputed background circumstances, is contrary to inherent probabilities and common sense, and his explanations on various evidential fragilities ring hollow.”

Zhang had 28 days to appeal but never entered one and CCBA demanded payment. He was ordered to stump up what he owed as well as interest on that amount at a rate of 13 per cent until the debt, now more than $300million, is satisfied.

“Even though Zhang is the heir apparent to one of China’s largest companies, sits at the helm of an internationally renowned soccer club, and flaunts his expensive sports cars and watches on social media, Zhang has not paid one penny of the debt he owes to CCBA,” a court filing by the bank’s lawyers explains.

Zhang, according to CCBA’s legal team, does not own any property or real estate in China or Italy or receive a salary and yet flaunts cars and watches worth more than $9.5million on his social media accounts. This has led to the allegation by CCBA’s legal team that “Zhang apparently hides his assets through shell companies and other nominees”.

In January, the bank’s lawyers submitted a motion for discovery in the Southern District of New York in support of four active or contemplated proceedings in Hong Kong and Milan. Discovery compels a person, business or law firm to turn over documents or evidence that could “pierce the ‘moneyless’ facade Zhang has maintained to hinder his creditors”. The aim was to “establish Zhang’s rights to assets and compensation that may be used to satisfy the debt that he owes”.

Why New York? Because it is the world’s financial capital.

The motion was granted on January 23 and CCBA began serving subpoenas to two groups. One was the ‘Inter Milan respondents’ — Goldman Sachs, Raine, Oaktree, Bain Capital and financial advisory firm Lazard — the institutions “working with Inter Milan on potential transactions”. The other was ‘Wire Transfer respondents’, five banks and a clearing house whose wire transfer records were sought for “information about financial transactions involving Zhang as well as individuals and companies associated with him”.

Inter are of interest because the club “plays a central role in Zhang’s and his family’s financial affairs”. As such, “the subpoenas also request documents concerning the soccer club’s ownership, shareholder interests, management structure, compensation arrangements and debts”.

These are considered relevant by CCBA’s lawyers to a civil proceeding in Milan that seeks to invalidate what they allege to be a “suspicious” and “highly unusual” shareholder’s resolution from February 2019, which decided Zhang would “eschew any direct compensation for his services” as Inter president. In other words, he is apparently salary-less.

An analysis performed by a chartered accountant and auditor for CCBA estimates the annual remuneration of the football club’s chairman to be equal to approximately €914,000. The resolution, CCBA argues, is “intended to prevent garnishment”, the seizure of wages to satisfy a debt.

The discovery CCBA sought in New York was intended for use in a proceeding in Milan to recognise the debt and enforce it in Italy. While Zhang has denied Inter is for sale, lawyers acting for CCBA cited news reports claiming the club is on the market. “The potential proceeds from the sale of Inter Milan may be used to repay a $336million loan that Suning borrowed from Oaktree Capital Management Group in May 2021 to assist Inter Milan”, a court filing by CCBA’s lawyers note.

Meanwhile, in Hong Kong, Zhang was ordered to appear before a court on March 13 to “be orally examined… as to what debts are owing (to Zhang) and whether (he) has any and what other property or means of satisfying the judgment that he has in possession”. The order added: “If Zhang has dissipated assets or fails to truthfully answer any questions, the Hong Kong court may commit him to prison for up to three months.”

Court filings by CCBA’s counsel claim he was a no-show for the hearing. Sky Italia footage showed Zhang flying to Porto for Inter’s Champions League tie instead.

The stakes are high for Zhang, even if his lawyers contend the CCBA case “is nothing more than a fishing expedition of potential assets and claims” and the bank’s application was too broad, unduly burdensome and fatally flawed.

In mid-May, the Court of Milan “issued a decision that rejected certain of Zhang’s and Inter Milan’s preliminary objections” and set a deadline of July 7, 2023, for CCBA to submit evidence. “Based on the information available to date, the Company believes that it has good grounds to have the counterparties’ claims dismissed,” said Inter’s latest financial report. Nevertheless, CCBA’s claim against Zhang raises questions about the family’s ability to satisfy their commitments to Oaktree and keep Inter.

The next hearing in Milan is scheduled for this Friday, November 24. A debtor examination is due to take place in Hong Kong at 10am on November 28. In between is the Derby d’Italia, Inter’s top-of-the-table clash against Juventus.

What’s the way out?

On the eve of the Champions League final, Zhang was candid about his plans. In relation to Oaktree, he said Inter’s “intention is to renegotiate the loan. We’ll find a solution for the refinancing together”.

Rumours of Inter being up for sale have regularly been denied by Zhang. In June, he recommended fans treat them like transfer gossip. “Just ignore them,” he told Gazzetta.

But Raine, the bank that sold Chelsea and is overseeing the sale of a stake in Manchester United, appears to have had a mandate to find a buyer for Inter for more than a year. As yet, the club remains unsold despite Finnish entrepreneur Thomas Zilliacus claiming he is ready to make an offer.

Selling would presumably be preferable for Zhang rather than potentially losing Inter in a repossession by Oaktree. AC Milan’s takeover by RedBird Capital in 2022 for €1.2billion set a benchmark in the valuation of Italy’s elite clubs, but achieving a price that high appears difficult. The economic landscape has changed, with central banks hiking up interest rates to curb inflation. Money has become more expensive.

A prospective owner of Inter will have to price in a number of things. First, despite the departures of veterans like club captain Samir Handanovic and big-game goalscorer Edin Dzeko, the average age of the squad is 29.8. Marotta and Ausilio have proven adept at creating value — for instance, by signing Onana for free and flipping him a year later for €51million – but the squad will need investment as Inter have 10 players aged 30 or over, five of whom are starters.

Then there is the stadium. Inter’s corporate CEO, Alessandro Antonello, claims this is “our most important mid-to-long-term goal”. Building one is more expensive in the current economic climate, so while a new home will add value to the club — and Inter have plans to do so in Rozzano — it is a major undertaking unless a new investor teams up with cousins AC Milan.

Last but not least, there is Inter’s debt load. The club refinanced a €415million bond with an annual interest rate of 6.75 per cent. While S&P Global Ratings affirmed Inter’s B status and removed it from CreditWatch negative, the club’s total liabilities are a lot to take on for any prospective new buyer, who must know that Oaktree’s arrangement with Zhang places the Californian fund in pole position.

Oaktree is Inter’s backstop, the safety net if Zhang is unable to sell, refinance or repay the money Inter’s majority shareholders owe the fund. Otherwise, Oaktree can enforce the debt and take over the club in May, just as investment firm Elliott did with AC Milan in 2018.

Elliott provided a model for how private equity can work in football. It stabilised Milan, reactivated the club’s aura and sold up for a big return on the high of winning a first league title in 11 years. It remains to be seen if Oaktree follows the same playbook.

For now, Inter remains in the hands of Suning. The question is: for how much longer?

May 20, 2024, is when the Oaktree loan matures. The clock is ticking.
 

Forzanerazzurri

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Some highlights (financial-specific notes second half of story):

---------------------------------------------------

How bad is it?

Shortly after Oaktree propped up Inter via Grand Tower, Zhang’s father resigned as chairman of Suning.com. He lost control of the company following a government-led bailout and his net worth fell from $8.4billion in 2020 to $345m, according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index.

Zhang Jindong’s last visit to Milan was four years ago. He has not returned since China and Italy came out of lockdown. It’s a stark contrast with Milan’s owner, Gerry Cardinale, who was at San Siro to watch his team play Paris Saint-Germain in the Champions League, his fourth game of the season.

This matters when it comes to the joint Cattedrale project to redevelop the stadium shared by Inter and Milan, San Siro, which has gone cold. San Siro has been designated as a venue for the 2026 Winter Olympics, which the city of Milan is co-hosting with Cortina d’Ampezzo. The ground is now a listed building and cannot be touched.

But, as the mayor of Milan, Beppe Sala, said in 2021, “until Inter’s destiny is cleared up”, he would harbour some reservations about giving the project the go-ahead as “I cannot entrust a district of the city, for such a long period, to companies whose future ownership is not certain”.

Frustrated at the slow pace, Milan are now going it alone outside the city limits in San Donato and the club’s CEO, Giorgio Furlani, hopes Milan’s own stadium will be ready in five years.

Steven Zhang, meanwhile, is being chased by China Construction Bank (CCBA), the sixth largest bank in the world, for more than $250million in unpaid debts.

Court filings in the Southern District of New York seen by The Athletic take us to the Caribbean in 2019 and the offshore tax haven of the British Virgin Islands. Here, companies “Zhang owned and controlled”, Great Matrix and Great Momentum, acquired a 65 per cent interest in one of the family business’ subsidiaries, Suning Xiaodian.

In 2020, Zhang borrowed money from CCBA, taking out a $165million loan and an $85m bond, to refinance some of the debt incurred in that transaction. The monies were due in September 2021, but CCBA called them in after the ripple effect caused by “multiple events of default” in “certain other bank loans” totalling approximately $1.7bn at Suning.com, the e-commerce arm of the Zhang business empire, according to its audited financial statements published on May 12, 2021.

In legal action brought before the High Court of Hong Kong, CCBA produced paperwork saying Zhang was personally liable for the $250m debt incurred by Great Matrix in the 2020 refinancing operation. In his defence, Zhang claimed he was neither involved in nor aware of the deal and that his signatures were forged. His argument was rejected.

The Honorable Mr Justice Anthony Chan granted summary judgment in favour of CCBA. “I am unable to accept that Zhang has shown a believable defence of forgery,” he said. “His evidence, assessed against the undisputed background circumstances, is contrary to inherent probabilities and common sense, and his explanations on various evidential fragilities ring hollow.”

Zhang had 28 days to appeal but never entered one and CCBA demanded payment. He was ordered to stump up what he owed as well as interest on that amount at a rate of 13 per cent until the debt, now more than $300million, is satisfied.

“Even though Zhang is the heir apparent to one of China’s largest companies, sits at the helm of an internationally renowned soccer club, and flaunts his expensive sports cars and watches on social media, Zhang has not paid one penny of the debt he owes to CCBA,” a court filing by the bank’s lawyers explains.

Zhang, according to CCBA’s legal team, does not own any property or real estate in China or Italy or receive a salary and yet flaunts cars and watches worth more than $9.5million on his social media accounts. This has led to the allegation by CCBA’s legal team that “Zhang apparently hides his assets through shell companies and other nominees”.

In January, the bank’s lawyers submitted a motion for discovery in the Southern District of New York in support of four active or contemplated proceedings in Hong Kong and Milan. Discovery compels a person, business or law firm to turn over documents or evidence that could “pierce the ‘moneyless’ facade Zhang has maintained to hinder his creditors”. The aim was to “establish Zhang’s rights to assets and compensation that may be used to satisfy the debt that he owes”.

Why New York? Because it is the world’s financial capital.

The motion was granted on January 23 and CCBA began serving subpoenas to two groups. One was the ‘Inter Milan respondents’ — Goldman Sachs, Raine, Oaktree, Bain Capital and financial advisory firm Lazard — the institutions “working with Inter Milan on potential transactions”. The other was ‘Wire Transfer respondents’, five banks and a clearing house whose wire transfer records were sought for “information about financial transactions involving Zhang as well as individuals and companies associated with him”.

Inter are of interest because the club “plays a central role in Zhang’s and his family’s financial affairs”. As such, “the subpoenas also request documents concerning the soccer club’s ownership, shareholder interests, management structure, compensation arrangements and debts”.

These are considered relevant by CCBA’s lawyers to a civil proceeding in Milan that seeks to invalidate what they allege to be a “suspicious” and “highly unusual” shareholder’s resolution from February 2019, which decided Zhang would “eschew any direct compensation for his services” as Inter president. In other words, he is apparently salary-less.

An analysis performed by a chartered accountant and auditor for CCBA estimates the annual remuneration of the football club’s chairman to be equal to approximately €914,000. The resolution, CCBA argues, is “intended to prevent garnishment”, the seizure of wages to satisfy a debt.

The discovery CCBA sought in New York was intended for use in a proceeding in Milan to recognise the debt and enforce it in Italy. While Zhang has denied Inter is for sale, lawyers acting for CCBA cited news reports claiming the club is on the market. “The potential proceeds from the sale of Inter Milan may be used to repay a $336million loan that Suning borrowed from Oaktree Capital Management Group in May 2021 to assist Inter Milan”, a court filing by CCBA’s lawyers note.

Meanwhile, in Hong Kong, Zhang was ordered to appear before a court on March 13 to “be orally examined… as to what debts are owing (to Zhang) and whether (he) has any and what other property or means of satisfying the judgment that he has in possession”. The order added: “If Zhang has dissipated assets or fails to truthfully answer any questions, the Hong Kong court may commit him to prison for up to three months.”

Court filings by CCBA’s counsel claim he was a no-show for the hearing. Sky Italia footage showed Zhang flying to Porto for Inter’s Champions League tie instead.

The stakes are high for Zhang, even if his lawyers contend the CCBA case “is nothing more than a fishing expedition of potential assets and claims” and the bank’s application was too broad, unduly burdensome and fatally flawed.

In mid-May, the Court of Milan “issued a decision that rejected certain of Zhang’s and Inter Milan’s preliminary objections” and set a deadline of July 7, 2023, for CCBA to submit evidence. “Based on the information available to date, the Company believes that it has good grounds to have the counterparties’ claims dismissed,” said Inter’s latest financial report. Nevertheless, CCBA’s claim against Zhang raises questions about the family’s ability to satisfy their commitments to Oaktree and keep Inter.

The next hearing in Milan is scheduled for this Friday, November 24. A debtor examination is due to take place in Hong Kong at 10am on November 28. In between is the Derby d’Italia, Inter’s top-of-the-table clash against Juventus.

What’s the way out?

On the eve of the Champions League final, Zhang was candid about his plans. In relation to Oaktree, he said Inter’s “intention is to renegotiate the loan. We’ll find a solution for the refinancing together”.

Rumours of Inter being up for sale have regularly been denied by Zhang. In June, he recommended fans treat them like transfer gossip. “Just ignore them,” he told Gazzetta.

But Raine, the bank that sold Chelsea and is overseeing the sale of a stake in Manchester United, appears to have had a mandate to find a buyer for Inter for more than a year. As yet, the club remains unsold despite Finnish entrepreneur Thomas Zilliacus claiming he is ready to make an offer.

Selling would presumably be preferable for Zhang rather than potentially losing Inter in a repossession by Oaktree. AC Milan’s takeover by RedBird Capital in 2022 for €1.2billion set a benchmark in the valuation of Italy’s elite clubs, but achieving a price that high appears difficult. The economic landscape has changed, with central banks hiking up interest rates to curb inflation. Money has become more expensive.

A prospective owner of Inter will have to price in a number of things. First, despite the departures of veterans like club captain Samir Handanovic and big-game goalscorer Edin Dzeko, the average age of the squad is 29.8. Marotta and Ausilio have proven adept at creating value — for instance, by signing Onana for free and flipping him a year later for €51million – but the squad will need investment as Inter have 10 players aged 30 or over, five of whom are starters.

Then there is the stadium. Inter’s corporate CEO, Alessandro Antonello, claims this is “our most important mid-to-long-term goal”. Building one is more expensive in the current economic climate, so while a new home will add value to the club — and Inter have plans to do so in Rozzano — it is a major undertaking unless a new investor teams up with cousins AC Milan.

Last but not least, there is Inter’s debt load. The club refinanced a €415million bond with an annual interest rate of 6.75 per cent. While S&P Global Ratings affirmed Inter’s B status and removed it from CreditWatch negative, the club’s total liabilities are a lot to take on for any prospective new buyer, who must know that Oaktree’s arrangement with Zhang places the Californian fund in pole position.

Oaktree is Inter’s backstop, the safety net if Zhang is unable to sell, refinance or repay the money Inter’s majority shareholders owe the fund. Otherwise, Oaktree can enforce the debt and take over the club in May, just as investment firm Elliott did with AC Milan in 2018.

Elliott provided a model for how private equity can work in football. It stabilised Milan, reactivated the club’s aura and sold up for a big return on the high of winning a first league title in 11 years. It remains to be seen if Oaktree follows the same playbook.

For now, Inter remains in the hands of Suning. The question is: for how much longer?

May 20, 2024, is when the Oaktree loan matures. The clock is ticking.
This is a repost. And it's really not that bad.
 

Capo

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This is absurd. There are handfuls of teams like Porto that do this non stop. Suning will refinance the bond and the world will continue to spin. It's not that big of a deal, stop reading the football media.
We'd be as bad as Man U if you were in charge.

Man U have money to buy talent. We dont...

Beppe cant keep plastering over cracks that are half the price sooner or later one of his signings wont hit. He needs cash if we're going to operate at high level otherwise, yes I see the club middle-ing it out.

We'll sell a big name (Lautaro) in the summer and have Cavani sign because he has Serie A experience and is cheap.
 

.h.

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So the books are out:





Major things to care about:

  1. +22m in home revenue, presumably because of the CL run, I dont entirely remember when stadia covid restrictions lifted
  2. Season ticket sales brought in only 22m, last year it was 1.6mil, but there was 44m in the 'other' category which I think is some commercial sponsorships, which was 0 for last year (though theres a separate sponsorship category)
  3. Sponsor revenue was actually up +10m, presumably bonuses etc from the CL, even without the digitalbits payment - so if thats another 25m for arguments sake, thats a significant net positive impact for the book this year
  4. Commercial was up +7m as well
  5. TV revenue was up +50mil
  6. Plusvalenza down 76mil, so actually these results are probably more reflective of a 'stable' state for Inter - e.g. fewer (accounting-level, at least) one off exceptions. Obviously in a sporting sense, the CL final can be counted as a one off.
  7. Wages has improved 12mil, as has amortisation, so thats +24mil a season saving there (from 21/22 to 22/23)
  8. Writedowns more than halved, from 17mil to 7.5mil - this was of course intentional with the release of 9golan and JM in the summer for example
  9. Sponsorship write down basically zeroed, it was 25mil the season before, last year was <1m
  10. Financing costs actually improved 9mil, I havent looked into the 'why' of that yet


This chart will give you the *comparative* financial performance between 21-22 and 22-23



Based on our books, I'd guess at a rough figure that CL group stage vs CL final is worth about 80mil for us, and with this year's plusvalenza of Onana, Brozovic, etc, if we make the CL final again we're probably on track roughly to get to about a -40mil result once you factor in all the financing costs etc. Then you add in the sponsorship revenue, that should take us to like -10/-20.... winning the league could basically get us to about there.

So to take a forecast for this season, depending on CL performance obviously, we could be lookign broadly at a -80mil result if we go out at the group stage, and build ontop that from there.



Pure wage+amortisation - not using the UEFA calculation as we dont split out player vs non-player - represents about 75% of revenue for last year, so that's actually pretty good, esp if you consider how reduced plusvalenza was. If we had last year's plusvalenza, but the previous season's sporting result, it'd have been more like 94%.
 

Pimpin

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Motherfucker, Zilliacus actually replied to me in Linkedin!

He said he's not giving any new interviews at this point but can return if the situation changes.
please let adriano and brehme grill him
 

Capo

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looks like suning is here for the long haul

They cant afford the loan when it is called.

If it was refinanced it would have been done by now, if they are to sell we would be in detailed talks right now.

We're moving to Oaktree...
 

.h.

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They cant afford the loan when it is called.

If it was refinanced it would have been done by now, if they are to sell we would be in detailed talks right now.

We're moving to Oaktree...
to be honest, I think the chance of Zhang defaulting on an asset with net equity of like 500-750mil is precisely 0. He's not a moron, which is what it'd take for him to default on it. A fire sale would bring in more money than defaulting on it.

I'd wager most likely there's an oaktree extension in place.
 

Forzanerazzurri

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to be honest, I think the chance of Zhang defaulting on an asset with net equity of like 500-750mil is precisely 0. He's not a moron, which is what it'd take for him to default on it. A fire sale would bring in more money than defaulting on it.

I'd wager most likely there's an oaktree extension in place.
Bingo
 

Forzanerazzurri

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They cant afford the loan when it is called.

If it was refinanced it would have been done by now, if they are to sell we would be in detailed talks right now.

We're moving to Oaktree...
Why would they refinance early? Pay the restructuring fee as late as you can and ride out the rate you got when cost of funds were historically low.

Oaktree does not want to operate a football club and they do not want their capital back when they can get a double digit coupon on it via a fairly simple extension/restructuring. This is what they do all day. You guys have no idea how this works, you're all running around like chickens yelling that the sky is falling.

It'll be fine.
 

brehme1989

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The issue is that Inter will be financing that loan and people would still not get it.

Papa Zhang's priority has always been to extend the loan. But he keep changing his mind whenever something shiny appears that could potentially throw over 1bn at him.
 

Capo

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Why would they refinance early? Pay the restructuring fee as late as you can and ride out the rate you got when cost of funds were historically low.

Oaktree does not want to operate a football club and they do not want their capital back when they can get a double digit coupon on it via a fairly simple extension/restructuring. This is what they do all day. You guys have no idea how this works, you're all running around like chickens yelling that the sky is falling.

It'll be fine.
Havent they tried to refinance with other funds to pay off Oaktree?

And nothing has stuck, how much is the current loan for in May because reports seem to indicate A)they want an extension and they cant get it, b) Cant get another loan from another provider; and C) Cash in while they can...

Nothing shows they have a handle on this, if anything quite the opposite.
 
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