The Suning Commerce Group

brehme1989

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Honestly, aren't you tired of this shit?

900m injected and you contest the fact that 80% of it came in the first 3 seasons when they're losing the freaking club for not being able to repay 1/3 of that amount in a space of 2 years of the whole football finance world claiming that this day would eventually come?

What do you see that the rest of the world doesn't?
 

.h.

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The whole premise of the argument was how much money Zhang injected to the club...

It's irrelevant if for accounting purposes (somewhere in lesson #56) this made sense for them and the club.

The fact is, the money came in the first three seasons. I don't care and no fan cares if the bookkeeping said something about that 5 years later.

For crying out loud, read the damn room and stop wearing a lecturer's mask.


I think no one contests that Zhangs were *more* sugar daddy in the first few seasons. It's fucking obvious. But it doesnt mean no money flowed to Inter after. Look at this from our 22-23 shareholder report:

- in the context of a financing operation of the LeadingShareholder mentioned above -in the fiscal year ended on June 30, 2021 proceeded to disburse new shareholder loansinterest-bearing at a net fixed rate of 8% per annum for Euro 75 million, of which Euro 50 million on May 20, 2021 andEuro 25 million on June 28, 2021, converted into capital for Euro 15 million on 31 May 2021. During the fiscal year, theLeading Shareholder proceeded to disburse new shareholder loans at a net fixed annual rate of 11% for Euro 51 million,of which Euro 10 million on February 22, 2023, Euro 16 million on March 16, 2023 and Euro 25 million on April 17, 2023,and proceeded to convert into in Shareholders’ equity reserves Euro 10 million on June 30, 2023 and, after the closing ofthe fiscal year, Euro 76 million on September 25, 2023.



However you cut it, they've continued to subsidise a loss-making business for many years.


Inter is a business that spends more money than it makes. Forget any accounting tricks or anything like that - this club spends more on delivering its goods, than its goods bring in. If we were a retailer, at the very least, we'd be selling $1 tins of beans for $1 and forgetting to cost in our overheads.


The rest of the Zhang stuff, ownership, china, etc is noise. Zhangs have continually injected money to keep this club afloat.

Simple as that, and its an objective fact. You can argue all day about whether you like them, they've been good for the club, etc - but the *FACT* that they've kept this club afloat the last few years because the club has spent more than it made, is a fact
 

brehme1989

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The line we have is that you claim that Zhang kept the club afloat whereas based on the evidence I see, it was more of them holding the club hostage for whatever they had in mind.

The fact that we managed to have most of oue sporting success after covid and since they stopped messing [significantly] with the football part and stopped injecting money is something that will be taught in case studies wirh conflicting views on how on earth it became possible.

Anyway, tick tock.. let's see what Cinderella turns into in a few minutes.
 

Pimpin

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So just a q

1. If Suning defaults, the loan becomes equity and they take ownership at least what Suning has stake.

1a. Does this make us debt free?
1b. Why tf would they be obliged to buy the rest ? And i doubt we qualify for level3 ifrs for fair value hoow tf would they calculate it.

The other thing is, did millan not have a similar situation? And the hedgefund got whole thing no? And no fair value bs
 

ADRossi

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So just a q

1. If Suning defaults, the loan becomes equity and they take ownership at least what Suning has stake.

1a. Does this make us debt free?
1b. Why tf would they be obliged to buy the rest ? And i doubt we qualify for level3 ifrs for fair value hoow tf would they calculate it.

The other thing is, did millan not have a similar situation? And the hedgefund got whole thing no? And no fair value bs
No, it does not make us debt free. We have a massive bond on our books that is due in a few years. This loan Zhang defaulted on in his loan, not Inter's. Someone has to sort out the bond before we're debt free. There are reports it's callable with the ownership change, as @CafeCordoba said.
 

Dave54

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🚨 Zhang had failed to repay the loan and Oaktree has immediately gone into action. The American fund will control the club while it looks for a buyer. Oaktree’s first move: delegate all actions to Beppe Marotta.

[via @CorSport]

🚨 OAKTREE IS THE NEW OWNER OF #INTER.

[via @SkySport]
 

Dave54

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Btw, Co Ceo of Oaktree is an Armo guy from LA. Saudis may have an opening here.
 
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Pravesh

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And with this, it calls for a new thread I guess - Oaktree Capital 😁
 

CafeCordoba

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I've no idea where @CafeCordoba came with that but I trust he indeed read it somewhere. But the mofo reads everything there is and sometimes those filters don't work :D :D

There can be call provisions in corporate bonds but typically they're sort of bound with some kind of renewal. The principal n interest will always be paid in full, called early or not.

I just find this very fishy to be true, but the same time, since I was asking around for this bond when it was first released (not the 2022 one), I heard conflicting views. I just wanted to close my ears to the negative ones and focused on the positives. It's not something that was mentioned though.
Especially the 2022 one wouldn't have such a provision with everyone expecting Suning to fuck off soon enough due to their economic turmoil.
Haha, yeah let me explain.

So I've been chatting this one bond portfolio manager (Inter fan) and he's been talking to a financial journalist in Bloomberg and she (did I reveal too much?) has said some of her contacts have this legal opinion that in case of ownership changing from Oaktree to the next one, the bond would need to be paid back fully. So, it's not clear at all, more like legal interpretation of some. But the gist of it is that Zhangs -> Oaktree doesn't seem to be qualified as change of control.

I definitely do not understand 100% all the terminology and the logic behind all these financial vehicles/derivatives but just passing info/speculation.

PS.
I'm getting screenshots of Bloomberg terminal and shit. :D
 
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Adriano@10

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So just a q

1. If Suning defaults, the loan becomes equity and they take ownership at least what Suning has stake.

1a. Does this make us debt free?
1b. Why tf would they be obliged to buy the rest ? And i doubt we qualify for level3 ifrs for fair value hoow tf would they calculate it.

The other thing is, did millan not have a similar situation? And the hedgefund got whole thing no? And no fair value bs
1a) NO. The suning loan does convert to equity(has to be pid off) the 500mio in bonds dont become equity why would they? As in whos gonna pay the bond holders in this scenario?

1b) Same as when you default on your mortgage or your car loan whil the house/car can be reposessed and sold on any proceeds from the sale above he loan costs go back to the owner who defaulted. Basically oaktree only has a claim on 395 mio and any thing above that belongs to the zhangs.

If i remember correctly in the milan case the problem was hat the debt load> club value in this case you get the whole club.
 

brehme1989

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Just imagine that they've decided to refinance the loan after the CL final and it took them 350 days to achieve that during a spectacular Scudetto season, and they still came short...

Speaks volumes of how messy the next years could have been under Suning. They leave on a high due to their incompetence, so they avoid the return of the backlash. Good for all parties involved thus far.
 

Adriano@10

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Just imagine that they've decided to refinance the loan after the CL final and it took them 350 days to achieve that during a spectacular Scudetto season, and they still came short...

Speaks volumes of how messy the next years could have been under Suning. They leave on a high due to their incompetence, so they avoid the return of the backlash. Good for all parties involved thus far.
Honestly still baffling how much they must have fucked up the financial side of their holding co. Also baffling that they decided to let it come to this instead of sell the club before
 

Capo

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I don’t know why people are celebrating.

This could be even worse than Zhang/Suning or even better.

We just need to hold our breath and see who comes out of the shadows and actually make a formal offer to buy.

Still Zhang and co, what a bunch of fuckwits. The incompetence really does piss me off.
 

SiamoNoi

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Would love to see people talking in English in this thread.
 

Pravesh

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Zhang and co. really fucked it I guess. Not sure about the payment terms by other potential buyers earlier on but it could had been profitable than being in this situation. 🤔
 
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