Yuto Nagatomo

pencilpal

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oh i'm sorry if you don't understand my english

:serious:

why do you only pick on nagatomo while there are many other players that are worse than him?

I pick on many other Inter players as well :)

I'm not meaning to be pessimistic, but realistically critical.

Palacio
Alvarez
Nagatomo - - - - - - - - Jonathan
Kova - Taider
Cambiasso
Juan - Ranocchia - Hugo
Handanovic​

Imho the weakest member of that lineup is Nagatomo, and considering the importance of his position to the team's success, an improvement is necessary if we want to be successful domestically. I'd also LOVE if we replaced Cambiasso and Guarin tbh.

- - - Updated - - -

My reply to your latest edit to the previous post:

Don't get me wrong, Palacio is a GREAT player

But Falcao is one of, if not the best CF in the world atm

He's definitely overrated, but the quality is there
 
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francesco

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:serious:



I pick on many other Inter players as well :)

I'm not meaning to be pessimistic, but realistically critical; I don't think Nagatomo measures up for CL contention (as a starter)

Palacio
Alvarez
Yuto - Kova - Taider - Jonathan
Cambiasso
Juan - Ranocchia - Hugo
Handanovic

Imho the weakest member of that lineup atm is Nagatomo, and considering the importance of his position to the team's success, an improvement is necessary if we want to be successful domestically

- - - Updated - - -

Palacio is a great player don't get me wrong

But Falcao is one of, if not the best CF in the world atm

He's overrated, but his quality is undeniable

hey you forget guarin in the starting line up,
if guarin is in our starting line up (which he actually is) he is the weakest and the brainless, why don't you pick on him?


what quality in falcao that palacio does not have?
so far both players score the same 9 goals
palacio can even cover other position and actively go to our defensive area
and he can play a goalkeeper
that's for 10 million compare to 60 million for striker role only :pokerface:

oh standar janda, standar janda everywhere

and other thing I cannot understand
why people pick on nagatomo when we have 2 fucking useless left wing back in pereira and chivu
why just silent on them?
go to their thread and pick on them more than naga
naga just made a goal last match and get pick on? unbelievable
 

pencilpal

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hey you forget guarin in the starting line up,
if guarin is in our starting line up (which he actually is) he is the weakest and the brainless, why don't you pick on him?

:yao: Because we CAN field a lineup without the presence of Guarin; moreover, as previously noted, I would LOVE if we could replace him with a more effective box to box midfielder

Technical brilliance cannot account for intelligence and pragmatism on the pitch

what quality in falcao that palacio does not have?
so far both players score the same 9 goals
palacio can even cover other position and active to go to our defensive area
and he can play a goalkeeper
that's for 10 million compare to 60 million for striker role only :pokerface:

:palm:

Palacio's defensive contribution is appreciated, and his importance to our offence is undeniable, but you CANNOT compare Falcao's finishing, dribbling, shooting, or heading to the Argentine.

Again, Falcao is superior to Palacio in the primary qualities of a CF. But don't get me wrong, Rodrigo is an amazing player, and he is definitely one of the best strikers in Serie A tbh.
 

francesco

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:yao: Because we CAN field a lineup without the presence of Guarin
but so far we don't
mazzari pick guarin to play more than kova or taider
so you have to count him in for now




Palacio's defensive contribution is appreciated, and his importance to our offence is undeniable, but you CANNOT compare Falcao's finishing, dribbling, shooting, or heading to the Argentine.

Again, Falcao is superior to Palacio in the primary qualities of a CF. But don't get me wrong, Rodrigo is an amazing player, and he is definitely one of the best strikers in Serie A tbh.

better finishing, dribbling, shooting, or heading
why only score 9 goals then?
 

pencilpal

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but so far we don't
mazzari pick guarin to play more than kova or taider
so you have to count him in for now

Even if I count him in, I've always been an avid critic of Guarin, and it would be best if we cashed in on him in the winter mercato.

Tbh I'd like to see Taider part of the starting lineup, but there is the risk of a lack of competition resulting in a lack of motivation, and ultimately poor performances from the French born Algerian international

better finishing, dribbling, shooting, or heading
why only score 9 goals then?

You can't simply base an entire argument off a statistical analysis.

Falcao is the better player, and it's absurd to think otherwise.
 
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MiQ

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Palacio
Alvarez
Nagatomo - - - - - - - - Jonathan
Kova - Taider
Cambiasso
Juan - Ranocchia - Hugo
Handanovic​

Imho the weakest member of that lineup is Nagatomo
Of them, I actually see at best 3 players who have obviously performed better than Nagatomo. Palacio, Alvarez and Campagnaro, but even Campagnaro hasn't still returned, so not sure if this guy's overall contribution is that large. Am I so biased, just blind, or are you just talking about your own team in PES or Fifa?
 

francesco

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You can't simply base an entire argument off a statistical analysis.

Falcao is the better player, and it's absurd to think otherwise.
so how else a STRIKER should be assessed for his price other than goal?
open room for other player?doing well in the match? remind me of allegri and matri
top scorer and golden boot are there for a reason
 

chipschups

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jonathan -nagatomo is much better for now
they give us more goals and assists than those porto duo, that should be enough
and I don't understand why you are so demanding towards nagatomo

this could be a serious topic in here,,
eventhough I love naga and jonathan thats not hide the fact Pereira did better than them last year,,
everybody hate him just because...

I dont know maybe my sig answer it..
 

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Japanese are truly horrible in defence, gotta point out great Robben and Honda goals.

inb4 Robben not as good as he looks

90851_next_time_you_make_a_request_please_tell_me_what_minute_because_i_dont_pay_full_attention_lol.gif
 
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pencilpal

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I actually only 3 players who have performed better than Nagatomo. Palacio, Alvarez and Campagnaro, and even Campagnaro hasn't still returned, so not sure if his overall contribution is so large). Am I so biased, just blind, or are you just talking about your own team in PES or Fifa?

Before we get to Nagatomo, lets ask what it means to be an effective player given a specific position on the field. Each position requires the retainment of a number of primary attributes that are absolutely essential; other characteristics are secondary, but they can become more important (depending on the role occupied on the pitch).

Thereby, a lack of needed characteristics for a certain position results in the player being deemed "ineffective".

Lets now look at the wingback position, and what characteristics are needed there. Basically their role to the team is to provide both defensive and offensive width. They are tasked with the dual responsibilities of going forward and tracking back. That being said, the wingback is more important in the offensive side of the game than the defensive, although teams that utilize WBs that generally lack defensive ability typically have CMs that can cross and cover the width of the pitch.

The *best* scenario is to have wingbacks with strong defensive and offensive ability; e.g. someone like Zuniga. What this allows is the ability to form a back four easily if needed, and to also allow the CMs to cover width. Moreover, the wingbacks can also cover the central midfield and the wings if needed.

Thereby, positioning for those respective players would occur on an "ad hoc" basis tbh.

THe definition of defensive ability is fairly standard, but what does it mean to have "offensive" ability? Imo it's the ability to link up with other players, cross, and speed/dribbling down the wings.

Nagatomo links up fairly well tbh, but he's shit at crossing and terribly inconsistent in his dribbling. He typically performs against the lesser teams in Serie A rather than CL or Scudetto contenders; the only truly strong performance I've seen of him was in our win against Juventus (then again, Guarin was also one of the best players in that match).

All that being said, he is a very useful player, especially considering his versatility, and I see him as a VERY valuable option for rotation (if we manage an improvement over our current WBs).

- - - Updated - - -

so how else a STRIKER should be assessed for his price other than goal?
open room for other player?doing well in the match? remind me of allegri and matri
top scorer and golden boot are there for a reason

It's ridiculous for any argument to simply rely on statistics.

Statistically, Kovacic was a more effective dribbler last season than Messi; can we really say that the Croatian is better than the Argentine in this regard?

Statistically, Ranocchia was one of the best CBs in Europe in the first half of last season; can we really say that the Italian's performances were at this level?

Statistically, the only better player in Europe than Alvarez is Messi; can we also say that this is a reasonable conclusion to make?
 
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Suraj

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Zuniga is not that good defensively. He makes a lot of mistakes and get caught out of position plenty of times. It's really the position that's demanding so wingbacks are usually not good at both aspects. Even Asamoah sucks defensively, Isla's not that good defensively either. Maggio makes boneheaded decisions as well. So it's unfair to say that Nagatomo is horrible. He is definitely starter capable in Seria A. And he does help out in attack alot as the left side is usually where we find more success offensively.
 

pencilpal

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On Zuniga, not being strong as a player that dives into tackles doesn't necessarily imply poor defensive skills; e.g. his interceptions are quite strong, and I believe his standing tackle isn't bad

EVEN if Zuniga was poor defensively, his offensive skills compensate, and imo Nagatomo lacks consistency in the offence. I already outlined how he lacks the optimal characteristics for a wingback in both the defence and the offence tbh

He is capable of starting in Serie A, but not if we want to contend for CL imo.
 

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So nobody is going to mention the AMAZINGLY JIZZ-WORTHY tiki-taka goal of Japan?

 

TheNetworkZ

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Why did you have to add that haha?!
 

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So nobody is going to mention the AMAZINGLY JIZZ-WORTHY tiki-taka goal of Japan?

so nobody reads the whole page before saying that? :alone:
 

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So nobody is going to mention the AMAZINGLY JIZZ-WORTHY tiki-taka goal of Japan?


With the way they are improving (in youth development, etc.), give the Japanese 20-30 years and they will be world-beaters.
 
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