Zlatan Ibrahimovic

[Adam]

and to adam, two things

(1) so what were we paying ibra 12mil for?? he was the highest paid player in the world...why?
to perform in the league and not the CL? to blame HIS inability to create and convert in the CL on the team??

What inability to create? He created lots. Convert yes. Some of it is pressure i'm sure, other is just extreme bad luck. We were paying Ibra 12 mil because he carried this team on his shoulders. Top scorer + top assister for Inter in 07/08 and 08/09. Nuff said.

(2) you are saying that Inter did not have a strong team??
are you smoking??

I'm saying compared to Europe's big dawgs we were avarage.

so if he scores, what questions will it answer for you??

That for one thing he's broken an incredibly unlucky patch, that was inevitable to be broken regardless of where he played. Second, if he scores a lot it will show what he's capable of in an offensive minded team with world class players around him. Nobody does it alone, if Iniesta wouldn't of scored in the semifinal you'd have ten thousands of Englishmen saying Messi is a choker that can't handle English sides. Instead he got another chance to prove himself in the final and he took it.

 

[Nyall]

We may have been average but we were certainly better than Milan in 2006/2007 yet they still won the UCL. Why is that?

I think it's all a matter of your superstar showing up in big games. Kaka did many times. Ibra choked.

 

[Forza ragazzi]

Although Ibra was fantastic, it's a bit strange, Adam, to say his five years without a goal in CL knockout rounds is just an unlucky patch of "form". Fact is that he hasn't scored in one of these games, and you can't really blame anyone else for it. If you credit him for scoring 25 goals in the league, you must credit him for the zero scored in CL too. Anything else would be picking facts and ignoring others just to logically maintain your opinion.

 

[n4l]

We may have been average but we were certainly better than Milan in 2006/2007 yet they still won the UCL. Why is that?

I think it's all a matter of your superstar showing up in big games. Kaka did many times. Ibra choked.

Although Ibra was fantastic, it's a bit strange, Adam, to say his five years without a goal in CL knockout rounds is just an unlucky patch of "form". Fact is that he hasn't scored in one of these games, and you can't really blame anyone else for it. If you credit him for scoring 25 goals in the league, you must credit him for the zero scored in CL too. Anything else would be picking facts and ignoring others just to logically maintain your opinion.

this is what i am trying to explain, but to some folks, ibra is untouchable and cannot be criticized because he was magic in the league...

kaka has been magic for milan in ALL COMPETITIONS...not just the league..
i don't hear him complaining about teammates when/if he doesn't perform


more importantly though, milan had the confidence, self belief, and mentality to play in the CL...
i remember in that semi-final, manU were CLEAR FAVORITES but they came out and stomped manU....never looked as though they were scared or anything..

Inter on the other hand does not have that mentality...
as a matter of fact, before mancini became head coach, we did not have it in the league either....
why??
external pressure....
we didn't win the league since 88/89 and the pressure is just there because we always have competitive squads that were "capable" of doing it but didn't

why do you guys really think that we had that ridiculous unbeaten streak or why we just happen to eek out victories when we are not playing at our best?

it is because mancini made the team believe that in the league, nobody could touch us...that confidence is just there when Inter step onto the field in serie A..

contrast that with CL, where we look scared and uncertain
why? pressure again...
haven't won the CL in ages and the media lets us know it every season..

that is what Jose is trying to change with us (he even said it in the interview post manU)
our mentality on the euro stage....

it's like liverpool in the EPL....
they haven't won in forever and the media let's them know it....
they have the squad capable of doing it, just their mentality is not as iron clad as it is in the CL...

 

[bennyblanco]

four dollars worth of mixed lollies please mam .. we are starting to go way off topic ...lets just stay on Ibra here

 

[Adam]

We may have been average but we were certainly better than Milan in 2006/2007 yet they still won the UCL. Why is that?

I think it's all a matter of your superstar showing up in big games. Kaka did many times. Ibra choked.

Kaka, Inzaghi, Seedorf, Gilardino, Pirlo and a few more scored goals, or assisted and Milan played well in most of the matches. They completely outplayed United at the Meazza for instance. We on the other hand were dominated at the Meazza, and none of our players except for Cambiasso and Maicon scored goals in the knockoutstages, and those two goals btw Ibra was behind.

Although Ibra was fantastic, it's a bit strange, Adam, to say his five years without a goal in CL knockout rounds is just an unlucky patch of "form".

I don't think it's strange at all. I call it logic. And I said an incredibly unlucky patch of bad luck, not "form". What would you call it then?

Fact is that he hasn't scored in one of these games, and you can't really blame anyone else for it. If you credit him for scoring 25 goals in the league, you must credit him for the zero scored in CL too. Anything else would be picking facts and ignoring others just to logically maintain your opinion.

Like I already did. Didn't I say he was at fault for missing his chances? Point here is that Ibra even though he wasn't as good as in the league he was still one of our better players, certainly against Liverpool and United in the second legs, therefore I tend not to blame the players that actually do well for our defeats. I tend to blame the players who take too long letting off a shot, or that can't make simple passes without loosing the ball.

Anyways, whatever really. I think anyone who blames Ibra for our defeats in the CL are retards of the highest level. And with that I bow out from the discussion.

 

[n4l]

I think anyone who blames Ibra for our defeats in the CL are retards of the highest level.

ahhh....

the only one doing the "blaming" was ibra.
true or not true??

while the rest of team lamented the loss, owned up to not performing, not capitalizing on the chances, crediting the other team e.t.c., only one dude was in a corner throwing tantrums about the team as if he performed and the rest didn't...

:thumbsdo:

 

[Adam]

ahhh....

the only one doing the "blaming" was ibra.
true or not true??

while the rest of team lamented the loss, owned up to not performing, not capitalizing on the chances, crediting the other team e.t.c., only one dude was in a corner throwing tantrums about the team as if he performed and the rest didn't...

:thumbsdo:

Not true. Where do you get this nonsense from? Ibra hasn't blamed the team once. The one time he might of blamed someone was when he said "ask Materazzi" but that was to ask him why he got sent off. Other than that I'm afriad this is all a figment of your vivid imagination.

And for arguments sake let's say he did blame the team. He's got a fucking point. It's ridiculous to expect everything from one, or two players and nothing but hard work and running from the rest. The fact that we're going to have to switch our entire style of play up, and get an attacking midfielder + Eto'o just to replace him should tell you something abiout our workload distribution in these years.

 

[n4l]

Not true. Where do you get this nonsense from? Ibra hasn't blamed the team once. The one time he might of blamed someone was when he said "ask Materazzi" but that was to ask him why he got sent off. Other than that I'm afriad this is all a figment of your vivid imagination.

And for arguments sake let's say he did blame the team. He's got a fucking point. It's ridiculous to expect everything from one, or two players and nothing but hard work and running from the rest. The fact that we're going to have to switch our entire style of play up, and get an attacking midfielder + Eto'o just to replace him should tell you something abiout our workload distribution in these years.

zlatan was paid 12mil, most in the world
next in line at Inter got how much? 5 or so mil??
that's more than double...

if you want equal distribution of work, you gotta take equal pay...

if you are paid leaps and bounds above everybody else, then guess what?
you are expected to perform leaps and bounds above everybody else...

in some instances, i have sympathy for the team (like the matrix and/or burdisso incidents against liverpool)

but the recent game against manU??
vieira let down
defense had a lapse in concentration
zlatan did not deliver

do you realize that in that game, the world player of year had one 1/2 chance and scored?

do you realize zlatan had a clear header on goal and scuffed it?
do you realize that zlatan got a brilliant through ball from balotelli and scuffed his shot wide?
that's two GREAT, CLEAR CHANCES....

listen, we were playing against the then best team in europe and best team in the world....
do you expect to create 6-7 clear chances?
gimme a break

sorry, but football at the highest level means capitalizing on the few chances created...

we've seen barca beat chelsea without creating much...
we've seen liverpool v chelsea decided by almost no chances and one goal scored in the first 5 minutes in the first leg
even in the final when manU did not perform, how many chances did "star studded offensive" barca create?

eto'o created his own goal out of nothing....NOTHING...all eto'o
henry had a good chance
messi scored
xavi hit a free kick on the post

ohhhhh....that's a lot chances created
:nono:


stop making excuses for the man...

 

[Adam]

zlatan was paid 12mil, most in the world
next in line at Inter got how much? 5 or so mil??
that's more than double...

if you want equal distribution of work, you gotta take equal pay...

if you are paid leaps and bounds above everybody else, then guess what?
you are expected to perform leaps and bounds above everybody else...

He scored or assisted 50% of our goals last season. So if our salary budget is 120 million maybe we should of payed him 50 instead of 12.

do you realize that in that game, the world player of year had one 1/2 chance and scored?

Do you realize that over the two legs Ronaldo had 5 chances to score and only scored the last one, missing the other 4? Ibra had two chances to score over the two legs. And halfchance, what halfchance? It was a free header with no players blocking his view like in Ibra's case.


Anyways, whatever. Useless discussion.

 

[Forza ragazzi]

I don't think it's strange at all. I call it logic. And I said an incredibly unlucky patch of bad luck, not "form". What would you call it then?

Ok, but anyway Ibra was a part of the team that failed. He is not going free just because he scores in Serie A. At some point, luck/form turns into quality. There is a saying: form is temporary, class is permanent. For me, five years of zero goals cannot be form or bad luck.

Like I already did. Didn't I say he was at fault for missing his chances? Point here is that Ibra even though he wasn't as good as in the league he was still one of our better players, certainly against Liverpool and United in the second legs, therefore I tend not to blame the players that actually do well for our defeats. I tend to blame the players who take too long letting off a shot, or that can't make simple passes without loosing the ball.

You win as a team and lose as a team. And if you win with Ibra as your team, you lose with Ibra as your team. I wouldn't say anything is more to blame than others. A team is one unit.

Anyways, whatever really. I think anyone who blames Ibra for our defeats in the CL are retards of the highest level. And with that I bow out from the discussion.

Totally agree, but Ibra is as much to blame for it as anyone else.

 

[vitomins]

Do you realize that over the two legs Ronaldo had 5 chances to score and only scored the last one, missing the other 4?


Anyways, whatever. Useless discussion.

If you want to call JC pulling off incredible saves, "Ronaldo misses" then I guess you are right...but I think it was more JC playing well than Ronaldo playing poor...

 

[Adam]

Totally agree, but Ibra is as much to blame for it as anyone else.

I disagree, for reasons I already explained. I tend to look past what the players who played well do bad, and instead criticize the players who didn't play well at all, even if they score a tap in.

Take the Supercoppa as an example. Eto'o created more or less everything we had, due to his passing and combinations. He anticipated a pass stole it, and missed a great chance to score, kind of like Ibra did vs Liverpool. Keep in mind he got that chance due to his own effort. Eto'o also ran offside and denied Milito a goal because of it.

So he had two errors, that if he hadn't done could of swung the match in our favor. Did you see me blame him for the loss? No, because what he contributed was that much more valuable and frankky I doubt we would of done anything without him.

If Eto'o would of run around being invisible and done nothing but miss chances, then yes I would of blamed him, but his contribution went way beyond scoring and therefore I don't think it's fair to blame him. For me Eto'o even if he hadn't scored a goal was the best player on the pitch. The same way I feel about Ibra's performances in the second legs vs Pool and United.

If you want to call JC pulling off incredible saves, "Ronaldo misses" then I guess you are right...but I think it was more JC playing well than Ronaldo playing poor...

Two of them went straight at Cesar, the other two slipped past the post. Maybe one of them was a great save, the others I don't think so. Point is it took him 5 chances to score one goal, not a half chance as the nitwit4life suggested.

 

[Forza ragazzi]

I disagree, for reasons I already explained. I tend to look past what the players who played well do bad, and instead criticize the players who didn't play well at all, even if they score a tap in.

You cannot more or less credit Ibra alone for the scudetto last year and not blame him for not stepping up in CL. I mean, come on, grabben If you give him all credit for the scudetto, logically you should give him all credit for the CL exit as well. You can't choose where you give him praise as you please and be taken seriously.

 

[n4l]

when the first leg is over, it is over....

n the crunch game (second leg after a 0-0 first leg), fact is ronaldo was playing poorly, had one chance and scored.....
zlatan's 2 chances were clearer and he scuffed both....

make whatever excuses you want

 

[vitomins]

Two of them went straight at Cesar, the other two slipped past the post. Maybe one of them was a great save, the others I don't think so. Point is it took him 5 chances to score one goal, not a half chance as the nitwit4life suggested.

There was 2 unbeieveable saves in the first leg...one of Ronaldo's headers from a corner and then he tipped a free kick round the post...I don't remember if he pulled off any great saves in the second leg, like he did in the first?

The point is on a weaker keeper, such as van der Sar lol, he would have scored more goals...

 

[Adam]

You cannot more or less credit Ibra alone for the scudetto last year and not blame him for not stepping up in CL. I mean, come on, grabben If you give him all credit for the scudetto, logically you should give him all credit for the CL exit as well. You can't choose where you give him praise as you please and be taken seriously.

Why not? Going by your logic Manchester fans should blame Cantona for their CL losses, Napoli fans should blame Maradona for theirs, and again Manchester fans should blame Ronaldo for their CL final loss, even though he was basicly the only player that managed anything. To me that doesn't make sense.

When a team is outplayed and dominated, and one player is more or less the sole bright spot, even if it's a little spotted, I tend not to blame the bright spot. You do as you please, but don't tell me "taken seriously" as if I'm the one with the faulty logic here, when in fact it's you, grabben.

 

[vitomins]

Why not? Going by your logic Manchester fans should blame Cantona for their CL losses, Napoli fans should blame Maradona for theirs, and again Manchester fans should blame Ronaldo for their CL final loss, even though he was basicly the only player that managed anything. To me that doesn't make sense.

When a team is outplayed and dominated, and one player is more or less the sole bright spot, even if it's a little spotted, I tend not to blame the bright spot. You do as you please, but don't tell me "taken seriously" as if I'm the one with the faulty logic here, when in fact it's you, grabben.

If Ibra played well in CL and we lost then, yes, it is unfair to blame the losses on him. But if you are going to claim all of Inter's successes when he plays well, then it is only logical to claim all of their failures when he plays poorly....


Would we have won the Scudetti without him? Probably not, but we will never know for a fact.

Would we done shitty in CL without him? Maybe, but we will never know for a fact...

 

[Adam]

If Ibra played well in CL and we lost then, yes, it is unfair to blame the losses on him. But if you are going to claim all of Inter's successes when he plays well, then it is only logical to claim all of their failures when he plays poorly....


Would we have won the Scudetti without him? Probably not, but we will never know for a fact.

Would we done shitty in CL without him? Maybe, but we will never know for a fact...

No, that's not logical. And who's claimed all of Inter's succes on him? He was clearly the most important player in the league, and one of the better even in the CL. But just to test your "logics" answer me this: If all A's are B's, and all B's are C's, does that mean all C's are A's?

 

[vitomins]

No, that's not logical. And who's claimed all of Inter's succes on him? He was clearly the most important player in the league, and one of the better even in the CL. But just to test your "logics" answer me this: If all A's are B's, and all B's are C's, does that mean all C's are A's?

Sorry you did not detect the sarcasm...

Anyways this debate will go on and on...If we were able to win Serie A because Ibra scored goals and gave us assists, then we managed to lose CL because Ibra did not contribute the same...correct?