European Super League Discussion

[Nerazzurri_Ninja]

I would have liked to be free from FFP, Let teams be crazy again and break transfer records, sign half or a whole new team all at once. Fire coaches without wry of there contracts.

Super League could have been that dream. I dare say Super Subs would be back on the table.

 

[PHM1605]

I am hearing the rumour that any clubs withdrawing from ESL have to pay 150m€ penalty?!? Spiegel even leaks a part of the contract. Reason why Juve Barca Real staying coz they wanna collect the penalty?

So if Juve don’t qualify for CL they are still happy sitting out regardless; as they have earnt more than CL revenue :chan: That is the next level of bullshit.

 

[Il Drago]

UEFA President Ceferin: "The clubs that are still involved in the Super League, in the future will not be able to play the UEFA competitions. Real Madrid, Barça, Juventus and ACMilan still inside? We will have fantastic competitions even without them...

 

[Bluenine]

Looks like we need a thread, How would you fix football?

This is a hard question to answer, as there are many things that need reform. So I will only talk about one issue, what I think is the core problem today. I believe the main problem is that football is starting to lose sight of fans, specially the younger generation. European Football is becoming a victim of its own (financial) success. Its a vicious cycle the big clubs have been badly caught in, the more they earn they more they spend which in turn means the more the fans have to pay to be able to watch the game.

When I was younger, European football was available for free on TV. All of my friends used to watch it. Agnelli talked about the 16-20 year olds today not showing interest in football. Thats coz now to watch football in the UK, say just the EPL and CL, you need to get Sky, BT and Amazon subscriptions. Thats like £60 to £70 a month. For younger people, thats a fucking fortune. If I had to pay the time equivalent of that to watch football when I was a kid or even a 20-25 year old, I wouldn't have. That is why football is losing support among the young, coz they cannot afford it anymore.

When the CL was created to milk the cash cow (ditto with EPL) so that the rich league can turn their millions into billions, that is what is (slowly) killing the game long term. As less and less people are able to afford it, specially among the young, football will start losing its mass popularity over a few generations - the reason why it earns the billions in the first place.

The answer lies to the opposite of the Super League - an audacious attempt to multiply the TV revenue. How do you think the channels will pay that 6 billion a year or whatever the deal was. By increasing the subscription fee, making the beautiful game even more inaccessible to the younger audiences. Its that kinda short termism that is slowly killing the game.

Instead, top football clubs should come together with proposals to reduce their costs, wage caps or FFP or whatever works. Go back to the basics, focus on the fans. Take a smaller TV revenue (say 75%) but force the TV companies to broadcast the remaining percentage (say 25%) of the games for free on national channels like BBC or ITV in the UK. Thats how it used to be, thats how football took off so much in the 80s & 90s. That will ensure that football's popularity keeps growing in a healthy and sustainable way, and younger kids irrespective of their financial demographic watch the games with their friends like we used to in the 80s and 90s. Football will keep generating new fans.

Sorry for the rant, I know there are many other issues that need to be sorted out in football. But this is the basic issue IMO. Even if this will not fix everything, its the best place to start. Rant over.

 

[Glass box]

He has a point.

https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2021/04/20/super-leagues-and-super-hypocrisy/

Super Leagues and Super Hypocrisy

By Jim Monaghan

The world of football was rocked on Sunday by the announcement of the new European Super League. Twelve of Europe’s biggest clubs have formed a new competition outside of the auspices of UEFA, underwritten and funded by the banking giant JP Morgan. The plan is for the elite clubs to play in a midweek competition running alongside the existing national leagues and UEFA competitions such as the Champions League and Europa League. This closed shop of invited guests has caused an uproar in football. People are, quite rightly, appalled by what they see as the ‘people’s game’ being hijacked for profit.

The biggest reaction has come from the existing competitions who feel threatened by this move. Six of the elite clubs involved; Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Manchester City, Manchester United and Tottenham; are part of the English Premiership. They are also, along with the Spanish and Italian clubs who have joined the super league, the big stars of UEFA’s flagship competition, The Champions League. What they object to, it seems, is the lack of merit involved, and the biggest clubs keeping the revenue generated to be shared among themselves. Most of the objections, to me, are quite clearly hypocritical. The hypocrisy and lack of self-awareness of the English Premier League and UEFA is staggering. What the elite cubs are doing is part of a trajectory started 30 years ago by the very organisations that are now bemoaning their plan. The reason that they are so angry about the idea is that, until now, the English Premiership and the Champions League were, effectively, the super leagues. Elite closed shops for the rich that shut out the smaller big clubs from outside the super-rich money-driven clubs.

We hear many in the English game say that this move will take football away from its grass roots, from the communities that support the clubs. But the grass roots and communities were left behind long ago. Match tickets for the biggest English teams are hard to come by, the clubs charge up to £100 for a ticket for a single match for ordinary tickets allocated to fans. The easiest way to acquire a ticket is through a sports package sold by events companies charging around £250 per person for the luxury of watching one of these teams.

The whole separation of the elite who keep the money for themselves started with the formation of the premier league breaking away from their own English Football League in 1992. Murdoch and SKY TV funded their super league to the detriment of smaller clubs. Since then the English game has become synonymous with the elite of football, astronomical salaries funded by the sponsorship of huge corporations and TV subscriptions.

Leeds United players protested against the ‘super league’ before their match last night by wearing t-shirts saying “Champions League – Earn It”. This is from a league whose 4th placed team “earn” an automatic Champions League slot as a “champion” while the champions of Scotland have to play 4 qualifying rounds to get there. There wasn’t a hint of irony in the action by Leeds’ millionaire footballers. The Champions League also began in the same year as the breakaway English Premier League. Initially the teams competing were actual Champions of European leagues, the member associations of UEFA. In the first year Rangers effectively reached the semi-finals, being second in one of the 2 groups where the winners went straight to the final.

But it It evolved as a closed shop for elite clubs. With each new development making it easier for the big clubs to enter, virtually guaranteeing them a place and the 20-30 million prize money for taking part and harder for smaller clubs and countries to break into their elite space. Now, by the time it gets to the last 16 it’s usually only clubs from the biggest 5 or 6 countries still involved. When the tournament starts next season 26 of the 32 places in the group stages are already decided with the 4 biggest leagues having at least 4 places each and the champions of 45 of Europe’s 55 national leagues having to scrap for the remaining places.

Of course Scotland is not innocent in all of this, our own top clubs split from the Scottish Football League in 1998 to form their own SPL, the bigger clubs taking a bigger share of the cake and making it harder for smaller clubs to reach the top flight.

This is all about money and greed. We all know this and probably all agree that the new European Super League is a bad development that will increase the divisions between the richest and poorest clubs in the game and have a detrimental effect on football in Europe if not worldwide. But those who are most upset are really only upset because their own greed has been trumped by those who are even greedier!

 

[brehme1989]

This is a hard question to answer, as there are many things that need reform. So I will only talk about one issue, what I think is the core problem today. I believe the main problem is that football is starting to lose sight of fans, specially the younger generation. European Football is becoming a victim of its own (financial) success. Its a vicious cycle the big clubs have been badly caught in, the more they earn they more they spend which in turn means the more the fans have to pay to be able to watch the game.

When I was younger, European football was available for free on TV. All of my friends used to watch it. Agnelli talked about the 16-20 year olds today not showing interest in football. Thats coz now to watch football in the UK, say just the EPL and CL, you need to get Sky, BT and Amazon subscriptions. Thats like £60 to £70 a month. For younger people, thats a fucking fortune. If I had to pay the time equivalent of that to watch football when I was a kid or even a 20-25 year old, I wouldn't have. That is why football is losing support among the young, coz they cannot afford it anymore.

When the CL was created to milk the cash cow (ditto with EPL) so that the rich league can turn their millions into billions, that is what is (slowly) killing the game long term. As less and less people are able to afford it, specially among the young, football will start losing its mass popularity over a few generations - the reason why it earns the billions in the first place.

The answer lies to the opposite of the Super League - an audacious attempt to multiply the TV revenue. How do you think the channels will pay that 6 billion a year or whatever the deal was. By increasing the subscription fee, making the beautiful game even more inaccessible to the younger audiences. Its that kinda short termism that is slowly killing the game.

Instead, top football clubs should come together with proposals to reduce their costs, wage caps or FFP or whatever works. Go back to the basics, focus on the fans. Take a smaller TV revenue (say 75%) but force the TV companies to broadcast the remaining percentage (say 25%) of the games for free on national channels like BBC or ITV in the UK. Thats how it used to be, thats how football took off so much in the 80s & 90s. That will ensure that football's popularity keeps growing in a healthy and sustainable way, and younger kids irrespective of their financial demographic watch the games with their friends like we used to in the 80s and 90s. Football will keep generating new fans.

Sorry for the rant, I know there are many other issues that need to be sorted out in football. But this is the basic issue IMO. Even if this will not fix everything, its the best place to start. Rant over.

A lot of fair points and to the right direction, but it's far worse than that.

We need a complete revamp in the regulation of football that stops top teams from hoarding the best players.

 

[Ethor]

Agree with the above points. You guys are certainly giving me a much needed education with regards to football.

So, would a salary cap be of any help relieving the problem? If so, it would have to be across Europe in all the leagues. The players would probably hate this. Moreover, I bet MLS would change their rules so more designated players ( or whatever they call it) could join. i don't know if MLS follows or even cares any current European football rules.

 

[Candreva Crosses]

This is a hard question to answer, as there are many things that need reform. So I will only talk about one issue, what I think is the core problem today. I believe the main problem is that football is starting to lose sight of fans, specially the younger generation. European Football is becoming a victim of its own (financial) success. Its a vicious cycle the big clubs have been badly caught in, the more they earn they more they spend which in turn means the more the fans have to pay to be able to watch the game.

When I was younger, European football was available for free on TV. All of my friends used to watch it. Agnelli talked about the 16-20 year olds today not showing interest in football. Thats coz now to watch football in the UK, say just the EPL and CL, you need to get Sky, BT and Amazon subscriptions. Thats like £60 to £70 a month. For younger people, thats a fucking fortune. If I had to pay the time equivalent of that to watch football when I was a kid or even a 20-25 year old, I wouldn't have. That is why football is losing support among the young, coz they cannot afford it anymore.

When the CL was created to milk the cash cow (ditto with EPL) so that the rich league can turn their millions into billions, that is what is (slowly) killing the game long term. As less and less people are able to afford it, specially among the young, football will start losing its mass popularity over a few generations - the reason why it earns the billions in the first place.

The answer lies to the opposite of the Super League - an audacious attempt to multiply the TV revenue. How do you think the channels will pay that 6 billion a year or whatever the deal was. By increasing the subscription fee, making the beautiful game even more inaccessible to the younger audiences. Its that kinda short termism that is slowly killing the game.

Instead, top football clubs should come together with proposals to reduce their costs, wage caps or FFP or whatever works. Go back to the basics, focus on the fans. Take a smaller TV revenue (say 75%) but force the TV companies to broadcast the remaining percentage (say 25%) of the games for free on national channels like BBC or ITV in the UK. Thats how it used to be, thats how football took off so much in the 80s & 90s. That will ensure that football's popularity keeps growing in a healthy and sustainable way, and younger kids irrespective of their financial demographic watch the games with their friends like we used to in the 80s and 90s. Football will keep generating new fans.

Sorry for the rant, I know there are many other issues that need to be sorted out in football. But this is the basic issue IMO. Even if this will not fix everything, its the best place to start. Rant over.

TV is not the only toxic part, I watch children of relatives not celebrating their new football shoes because Ronaldo, Pogba or Salah doesn't wear it. I don't remember it being like that when I was a child. Everything is about advertisement and earning money. I don't understand why the clubs have to pay those big salaries if these superstars earn 10x more from their sponsors.

 

[Ethor]

Interesting point, a Mexican gentleman down the street is a big supporter of Club America, his kids are more interested in American football and only like Messi when comes to football.

 

[brehme1989]

Agree with the above points. You guys are certainly giving me a much needed education with regards to football.

So, would a salary cap be of any help relieving the problem? If so, it would have to be across Europe in all the leagues. The players would probably hate this. Moreover, I bet MLS would change their rules so more designated players ( or whatever they call it) could join. i don't know if MLS follows or even cares any current European football rules.

The salary cap in principle is not a bad idea, but it cannot really be implemented here. First, it has to be universal, which cannot be done. And second, if you raise it high enough, you could end up with 75% of clubs not being able to afford to reach the max allowed.


Best thing to do is redistribute revenues:
- TV money shared around
- European competition money shared around
- Cap sponsorships, any excess gets redistributed [and sponsor becomes 'competition sponsor/partner/whatever]


On top of that, they should restrict transfer activity.

Basically, the sport needs to dissociate itself as much as possible from money and the general commercialization if it is to survive. If you keep pumping money in, most of which isn't even clean, you'll end up having a Superleague idea every 2 years until one of them is implemented eventually. At some point, we'll reach the point of no return. We may already have.

 

[Ethor]

Gosh, I hope your last point isn't true. I expect, unfortunately, that the pig powers will try again and again until they get their way. We are lucky, in a way, with this pandemic else they may have gotten it done. Without this human tragedy of global portions, the vast majority of fans , I suspect, would be more into their everyday lives and not vent their rage. The implementation of the social distancing and the stay at home orders afforded them a greater opportunity to see this sh* t going down.

 

[PHM1605]

Can UEFA just force Milan and Juve to decide NOW if they are choosing ESL or CL next season?

Coz obviously both of them are waiting for Serie A to finish. If they are finish top 4, they will leave ESL and join CL. If they finish 5th, they can't attend CL regardless and choose ESL to collect the fines from the other clubs.

That is another Milan FFP exclusion bullshit. They weren't good enough to be in CL to begin with, but but Milan could CHOOSE to play or skip Europa League, seriously?!?

 

[CafeCordoba]

They won't both miss CL spot. Other one might, quite probable is that Milan will.

 

[PHM1605]

They won't both miss CL spot. Other one might, quite probable is that Milan will.

That's not the point. My point is, why those two are allowed to delay the response and CHOOSE where to play next season, in their favor?

"If we finish top4, let's dump ESL, play CL"
"If we finish 5th, no prob, fuck UEFA and let's collect ESL compensation money instead"

So it's a win-win for them.

 

[CafeCordoba]

What is SL compensation money?

 

[PHM1605]

What is SL compensation money?

A couple of post above:

I am hearing the rumour that any clubs withdrawing from ESL have to pay 150m€ penalty?!? Spiegel even leaks a part of the contract. Reason why Juve Barca Real staying coz they wanna collect the penalty?

So if Juve don’t qualify for CL they are still happy sitting out regardless; as they have earnt more than CL revenue :chan: That is the next level of bullshit.

 

[Fitzy]

I would have liked to be free from FFP, Let teams be crazy again and break transfer records, sign half or a whole new team all at once. Fire coaches without wry of there contracts.

Super League could have been that dream. I dare say Super Subs would be back on the table.

Terrible.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah. The coefficient point BS is just that, BS. That echoes the privilege stuff the Super league tried to bring in. It's not technically the same but pretty close.

But in general, you earn your place in the sun by winning. By merit. By playing well enough. That's the core of European football and its continental competitions.

Cafe's last paragraph here should be etched. It's the essence of this sport.

 

[William]

Apologies if these have already been posted...

 

[Ethor]

For 23 GD seasons too! Stevie and his suits must have branded on the collective asses: I M MORON. Incredibly unbelievable,

 

[CafeCordoba]

Really despicable by Zhang. So he put his name on that paper which divided big clubs to different brackets based on how popular they are and are then distributed different amount of money. That's even worse than the regular American model in their closed leagues with their balancing mechanisms. It's like worst parts taken from America and European models. Closed league but different privileges to clubs based on some artificial popularity / money-making ability. So it wasn't enough for these big guns that they already make more money than some others (like Inter) they had to include these different distribution percentages to the league's money allocation. Disgusting.

This draft of Super league was even worse than what we initially knew.