General Football Debates

[firmino]

i was 6. :epicwin:

 

[qb4ever_2k]

i was 6. :epicwin:

Hi, granpa

 

[JJM]

Hi, granpa

Respect your elders kiddo

Poslano z mojega F5121 z uporabo Tapatalk

 

[firmino]

Hi, granpa

you're confusing me with Bluenine.

 

[brehme1989]

Henry wasn’t top 5 in 2005/6? Were you born in 1999? He was hands down the best striker of that year.

Hands down?

Let's raise up them a bit, no?

Samuel Eto'o, Adriano, Ruud van Nistelrooy, David Villa, Luca Toni, Andriy Shevchenko, Fernando Torres, Miroslav Klose and David Trezeguet. That would probably be the top 10. Even Ronaldo was as great for most of the season, iirc he missed almost the whole 2nd half of the season and started gaining weight whilst out [which is why we have an obese Ronaldo in the 2006 World Cup]. Could also argue about Ronaldinho, Totti and Del Piero if forwards are to be considered but let's stick with proper 'strikers'. They sure looked like it though. Even Gilardino was great in those years (don't recall if he was still at Parma or moved to Milan).

But of course Henry was the best of them all because he scored more than Ruud int he Prem and also scored against Real Madrid in the CL.

Give me Eto'o, Toni, Ruud, Adriano and Villa for the top 5 the 2005-6 season any day of the week. And if Atletico was any better, Torres would probably be a challenger for the Golden Shoe that year, but let's bash at the Torres name because he didn't score at Chelsea when he transfered there and because we now know Atletico as a formidable side. But yeah, I'm 6 years old because "Henry is hands down better" than everyone else I can't imagine the bashing this guy would get if people saw his sitters and easy chances he blew in every important final he's played in (Euro 2000*, Uefa Cup 2000, CL 2006, WC 2006). Elite players are allowed to miss a few of course, but when you do it every time you play an important game, it's an issue and it gets you labelled.

*Has to be noted that in the 2000 Final at least he was one of the best performers of his team but he didn't have much to do with the win in the end. Subbing on obscure talents Trezeguet and Wiltord (from Monaco and Bordeaux respectively) instead of Anelka who was on the bench was what got France the win eventually. Plus Cannavaro's sloppiness that led to both France's goals.
Also, to the people who doubt Totti, watch that game and compare Totti to Zidane, both at their peak.

 

[Candreva Crosses]

I think the 1989 in his usersame refers to Brehme's scudetto (unless you're being sarcastic?).

 

[n4l]

Its very easy to forget how genius totti was, especially if you're only a youngster watching totti 32+ years old...not realizing he was a prodigy and already cult-status since fricking 1998/1999 season as wide player, then playmaker, then striker/false 9.

And no reminders about euro 2000 finals please. Frickin' del piero

 

[chipschups]

Im just grateful known football since late 90s and saw so many great striker play. Nowadays its easier to pick the top 10 striker since there isnt many notable striker even someone who closes made 100 goals league like Icardi is get very underappreciated just because he didnt play on EPL or UCL. The irony when the interisti always bitching about him shown by those butthurt curva nord.

While back then there is a lot of great striker who current top striker nowadays can only dream topped their achievement. Every club have their own notable striker so is understandbly if people arguing about who is the top 10. But saying Totti isnt great striker because of his lack of trophy or on otherwise saying Henry isnt great striker despite his achievement in last decade, for me its sound so ridicilous and ignorant.

Especially when this is calcio thread and I need to read irrelevant dumbshit post for pages.. just fuck you all and mod just moved this childish debate to somewhere else please.

 

[wicked wizard]

I hate Totti, but he is one of the best footballers I have ever seen. People who says he's overrated or not that special are just blind haters or the monsters of the world who rate players like Scholes and lampard over him.

 

[monster09]

I hate Totti, but he is one of the best footballers I have ever seen. People who says he's overrated or not that special are just blind haters or the monsters of the world who rate players like Scholes and lampard over him.

 

[wicked wizard]

lol don't act like you don't.

 

[qb4ever_2k]

Totti > Scholes and Lampard, and it’s not up to debate.

 

[ElDiego22]

Look I don't want to look down on Totti but Henry is waaaay better. Henry actually achieved something for his clubs in Europe. What jackshit did Totti do in the CL other than repeatedly getting whacked by English clubs?

 

[brehme1989]

Look I don't want to look down on Totti but Henry is waaaay better. Henry actually achieved something for his clubs in Europe. What jackshit did Totti do in the CL other than repeatedly getting whacked by English clubs?

The tennis thread is in another section.

 

[firmino]

Totti > Scholes and Lampard, and it’s not up to debate.

different roles though

 

[ElDiego22]

Totti > Scholes and Lampard, and it’s not up to debate.

Totti is a striker okerface:

If you want to compare who's the best midfielder of all time, I'd say Sneijder>Xavi>Iniesta>Recoba>Pirlo>De Rossi>Busquets>Guti>Seedorf>Zizou>Scholes>Lampard

Gerrard won't come anywhere close

 

[brehme1989]

Totti a striker?

Totti was a right winger playing as second forward, who became a left winger, then became a trequartista and a second forward again, then became a central midfielder for a brief while, then back to the wing, then became a playmaker before being converted into what became known as a False Nine.

So yeah, Totti has played in a shitload of roles, but he never was a striker. What a way to strike out

 

[CoolMan44]

Totti is a striker okerface:

If you want to compare who's the best midfielder of all time, I'd say Sneijder>Xavi>Iniesta>Recoba>Pirlo>De Rossi>Busquets>Guti>Seedorf>Zizou>Scholes>Lampard

Gerrard won't come anywhere close

I love Sneijder but in no way is he the best midfielder of all time. He pretty much had one world-class years. I'd actually put him top of players who should've done much more in their career. Once he went to Galatasaray, he's pretty much been in the background and he wasn't that old either.

Not to mention Recoba (another player I love) being better than Zidane.

 

[ElDiego22]

Totti a striker?

Totti was a right winger playing as second forward, who became a left winger, then became a trequartista and a second forward again, then became a central midfielder for a brief while, then back to the wing, then became a playmaker before being converted into what became known as a False Nine.

So yeah, Totti has played in a shitload of roles, but he never was a striker. What a way to strike out

While Totti did play as no.10 for a while, I don't recall him playing as a CM. If that's the case then why argue in multiple threads comparing to a player you say didn't play in Totti's position?

 

[brehme1989]

While Totti did play as no.10 for a while, I don't recall him playing as a CM. If that's the case then why argue in multiple threads comparing to a player you say didn't play in Totti's position?

I said this to wera, I'll say this to you as well: Maybe what's confusing you is the fact that you're reading one thing and perceive that something totally different was written.

I didn't compare Totti as a player to Henry. Or Lampard. I just said that Totti is severely underrated whilst Henry, Lampard and Gerrard are severely overrated. The rest started because people feel that Henry is some kind of god.

Also, what multiple threads? This is the only one, moved from the Kovacic thread it originated from (and not by me).

This is my post:

One could argue that Totti has been a top 10 player for most seasons in the last 20 years. Maybe even top 5 in his prime (1997-2007 imo). But most of his good seasons were in that period, after 2007 until 2017 he was just a very good player with some great seasons. Wouldn't see how he could be top 10 from the turn of the decade except maybe the first years but that too might be a stretch.

I'd say between 1997 and 2007 the only players who can claim to be heads & shoulders in most seasons over Totti were Ronaldo, Zidane, Luis Figo, Ronaldinho in his peak (2003-2007), Rivaldo in his peak (up to 2001), Batistuta in his peak (up to 2001 as well) and I'd say Raul as well.
Then there's some defenders like Nesta, Maldini, Stam, Cannavaro, Roberto Carlos and Zanetti who are valued and rated differently plus goalkeepers who are on a different level. Players who could argue they were on par with Totti for particular seasons could be Shevchenko, Vieri, Henry, Bergkamp, Giggs, Veron, Mendieta, Del Piero and so on.

So really for 1997 to 2001 there was Ronaldo, Zidane, Figo, Rivaldo, Batistuta and Raul that were probably better than Totti for sure throughout the years (not every season though) and then there was argument for others who've had great years in contrast to Totti's season, from 2003 and on Ronaldinho is on that list. He never got any love really. He only got respect in his early 30s because he stuck with Roma and that's how he's viewed, as someone who played for his team and not as a great player. Can't find much argument for 2008-2017 to put him in a top 10 list. I think the highest he got voted for Ballon d'Or was in 2001, 5th place. And even then, you had David freaking Beckham voted over him. If you check the votes, he often disappeared and then was in the top 10 or so. He's a name everyone knew but no one respected as a football player that much. Plus, these votes are given based on a team's season performance and name value, not for quality and the actual player's performance. No Europe, no love. Same happens with Handanovic and Icardi now. They don't get any love.

And this was said in response to a statement from Pele and Spalletti that Totti was the best player in the world in January 2006.

This was said halfway in 2005/6. Around January.

Zidane was like 35. Zlatan was out of form at Juventus. Adriano was in a weird situation, Ronaldo was getting fat, Shevchenko and Del Piero seemed to be in their last good seasons. Then there was Kaka and Ronaldinho of course. The only other top midfielder at the time was Ballack probably. Xavi was still underrated as hell, Messi was a teenage sub mostly. Then you had players like Henry, Lampard and Gerrard who were overrated as hell. Real Madrid was simply a collection of average overpaid players (for Real's level) and could only boast about their defense...on paper. The only two great players that could challenge were Eto'o and Drogba.

The following year Totti even had his best scoring season and in between won the World Cup. It was not outrageous to call him the best player in the world. And I know people will say that he wasn't very instrumental with Italia but how good was Messi in 2014? Would people dismiss his quality and contribution if Higuain or Palacio converted their chances? And Totti only became a "striker" in 2006/7 so to talk about his scoring rate is ridiculous. Whoever says these things never really watched Totti. The magic touch he had can only be compared to Zidane's. Zizou had better ball control but Totti's first touch is probably on par with the best of all time.

And if you want to talk big tournaments. Totti was 'robbed' by complacency in 2000 and by the refs in 2002 in major tournaments. In 2000 he'd be the definite Ballon D'Or winner. In 2002 I assume they'd reach the final. Spain and Germany were not superior to Italy that year. Spain would have been trickier than the eventual finalists actually. (The refs also screwed Vieri of a goal vs Croatia btw, could argue also that Inzaghi goal could have been allowed at the end too, then there was another disallowed Montella goal by a Totti assist vs Mexico. it was not just the Korea game).

And prior to the nitpicking around years, the most absurd comment that sparked the discussion was this one:

I don't like that argument too, there is a reason Milito didn't make the top11 2010. And so haven't Totti ever done. Totti is a legend for Roma, nothing more. Totti has only conquered Roma.

Then wera decided to feel that Arsenal was a clown club back in the late 90s and early 2000s and presented Henry's feat with the club as something comparable to freaking Maradona....

So yeah, don't blame people for saying things they didn't say, it's not polite.