Inter's Financial Situation

[nurko]

Is this more exciting news than the rumours of the other NBA owner that everyone said was the worst NBA owner?

 

[wera]

Well at least this one is not the worst NBA owner

It's hard to know how well will NBA owners do with football clubs, since the money system is a lot different. I'd say americans are even more money motivated

 

[Mr-Intermilan]

we need to stop the ownership change every 3-4 years,sadly nothing can be done if the tax's/rules didnt change.

 

[Puma]

we need to stop the ownership change every 3-4 years,sadly nothing can be done if the tax's/rules didnt change.

Nah, we need to fuck Suning off to hell and find an owner that will invest in the club instead of this Chinese Communist Party paralysis bullshit.

 

[Harpsabu]

we need to stop the ownership change every 3-4 years,sadly nothing can be done if the tax's/rules didnt change.

You're right. New owners won't magically fix things. We are a money burning pit and have been forever. I don't know how we ever improve things without fully embracing being a selling club

 

[wera]

but for that we'll actually have to spend just as much for potential talent (and send some on loans around Europe)

I really don't see Inter doing that, ever

we are gonna lose money regardless. especially if we do stupid moves like bringing Lukaku back, even if only for this one year loan

 

[ADRossi]

You're right. New owners won't magically fix things. We are a money burning pit and have been forever. I don't know how we ever improve things without fully embracing being a selling club

Youth development and relying on Bosman signings. It's a dangerous game, but it's the only one that can get us to a financially viable spot unless the Super League comes to fruition.

 

[Corrode]

cheap bosman (heavy cost player like Calhanoglu, Mkhitaryan, Vidal, Dzeko, Sanchez, Kolorov, Vidic, Forlan etc should be avoid)

 

[Adriano@10]

You're right. New owners won't magically fix things. We are a money burning pit and have been forever. I don't know how we ever improve things without fully embracing being a selling club

Meh a stadium would pretty much solve our money problems......
Plus i think before the corona stuff we were cutting down our losses corona and the huge loan we had to take during corona to keep the club afloat is what really put us in the hole.
If a new owner wipes out our debt and invests in a stadium i dont think we have to become a selling club.... Unless ofcourse when it comes to huge offers from the like of psg city and real...

 

[brehme1989]

Meh a stadium would pretty much solve our money problems......
Plus i think before the corona stuff we were cutting down our losses corona and the huge loan we had to take during corona to keep the club afloat is what really put us in the hole.
If a new owner wipes out our debt and invests in a stadium i dont think we have to become a selling club.... Unless ofcourse when it comes to huge offers from the like of psg city and real...

All good provided that this is our stadium, but it won't be. Sharing it with Milan means that we'll still have to sacrifice a bunch financially.

But we'd be better off than now.

 

[Adriano@10]

All good provided that this is our stadium, but it won't be. Sharing it with Milan means that we'll still have to sacrifice a bunch financially.

But we'd be better off than now.

Meh i dont think the downside revenue wise would be that big.. I mean we d still get all our matchday revenue only thing will have to split is any non footballing events or NT games/Cl Finals where neither is involved....
Like my guess would be that roi is a lot higher on a shared stadium than it is on one owned by one club....
Like how many non footballing events does jube have during the reg season?

 

[brehme1989]

Meh i dont think the downside revenue wise would be that big.. I mean we d still get all our matchday revenue only thing will have to split is any non footballing events or NT games/Cl Finals where neither is involved....
Like my guess would be that roi is a lot higher on a shared stadium than it is on one owned by one club....
Like how many non footballing events does jube have during the reg season?

Juventus is not in the fashion capital of Europe or the most cosmopolitan city of Italy. Or the largest metropolitan area of the country. And region in general.

Obviously if we had two separate stadiums that also be reduced but it's a different animal.

 

[.h.]

for sure i think the RoI will be better; twice the cost but its unlikely to generate twice the revenue (e.g. we arent going to sell 2x season tickets, 2x match day revenue, etc)

I think for Inter, esp considering the costs, its worth doing. If the new stadium generates +60m for us, that's a 15% RoI on the 400+ mil we'll need to spend. And it probably ignores increased operating costs too.

But of course, for a football club, its not about RoI (esp with FFP), its about absolute revenue

 

[Capo]

So what is the current status?

What are the operating costs vs incoming capital?

The reason i ask, does it look attractive when Suning default of their loans for anyone to buy. Has Suning did the hard work to get us to a relative decent state in cashflow to just pick it up and run with?

 

[.h.]

We can go through those things once the reports release

Anything with net equity is an attractive buy, at a certain price. If you said Inter (for arguments sake) had net equity of 500m, if you could buy it for 300m, there'd be a long, long list of buyers.

Your latter point - we've vastly improved under Suning, I'm pulling a number out of my ass now but I'd guess our revenues are up even like 50% under Suning. Costs have gone up as well, obviously - where we used to have Palacio and Palombo and Poli we now have Lukaku, Barella, Bastoni, etc.

The job is far from over, but they've made a huge difference already.

 

[Adriano@10]

Juventus is not in the fashion capital of Europe or the most cosmopolitan city of Italy. Or the largest metropolitan area of the country. And region in general.

Obviously if we had two separate stadiums that also be reduced but it's a different animal.

Think your a bit over the top here... I mean the San siro will not be used by us or bbilan for most of nov and dez yet there is only one event during that WC break hosted at san siro...
Next one is during the summer break. So lets not act like every weekend when we dont play there there would be a huge concert if it was not for bbilan. In terms of corporate events I dont think we ll lose to much cause arguably if designed right those events could still be held even on matchdays.
Plus lets not forget these are football stadiums they usually generate the highest rev by hosting football games...

 

[brehme1989]

Think your a bit over the top here... I mean the San siro will not be used by us or bbilan for most of nov and dez yet there is only one event during that WC break hosted at san siro...
Next one is during the summer break. So lets not act like every weekend when we dont play there there would be a huge concert if it was not for bbilan. In terms of corporate events I dont think we ll lose to much cause arguably if designed right those events could still be held even on matchdays.
Plus lets not forget these are football stadiums they usually generate the highest rev by hosting football games...

Both Inter and Milan rent the stadium for football, not for events. The events are handled by the municipality, unless there's some condition that one of the clubs will host. The municipality earns a lot of money in such cases as well, so there's not much incentive.

In the case of owning the stadium, we'd be seeking to host events.

You can see how any events the indoor stadium is hosting for example in contrast. Mediolanum Forum has 3-4 events per month. Teatro Repower, their other venue in the city, is fully booked over the year. Mostly local productions, but they do host international events as well when they don't have a daily/weekly ongoing project.

The other issue is that you're talking about November and December. It's raining. Not so many concerts in most of central and northern Europe going around in open spaces, are there?



Not so long ago, the Athens Olympic stadium added a car circuit in it and had the WRC race there!

You could host something like that before the Monza Grand Prix for example, or the Moto GP, with various sports cars or motocross shit. The equivalent WRC circuit is in Sardinia so that's obviously going to be tricky, but there's a variety of things you could use stadiums for.

There's the fashion week, there's the Scala which could use stadiums to have a huge concert for their 250th birthday (in 2028) or some annual festival you could host, which is something the city of Milano will lack after they demolish the Ippodromio just next to the stadium.


There's a lot of potential if you're pressing for events. The problem with sharing the stadium is that you rule out being able to host during the season, as you'll be having games at least every week and possibly during the week as well (due to Europe or the Coppa).

Tottenham is dedicating itself to host various sporting events (NFL, Rugby etc) whereas Arsenal mostly hosts concerts during the summer. Wembley is doing something in between. Sporting events during the season and concerts during the summer.


I'm not saying that you'd have 50 events a season, but even 5-6 of them would give a decent boost.


Concert season for stadiums is usually between March and September. If we share the stadium, there'll be like 1-2 concerts at best between the two clubs. And the revenues wouldn't have an effect.
Because you have to rule out every month but June and July.

 

[.h.]

But to Adriano's point, whats the revenue on each event? Maybe a few hundred k? Our cost has gone down by half, and probably the operating cost down by 20-30% as well, I would expect the RoI doesnt stack up full ownership vs partial ownership. If the stadium cost less, its worth exploring, but this will be the 3rd most expensive football stadium in history.

I found this report, pg 17 is quite interesting:

https://democracy.brent.gov.uk/documents/s80862/Economic%20Impact%20of%20Wembley%20Stadium%20Events.pdf

£326m from Tottenham (this is like 17/18 season), £97m from England, £78m from 'other FA events', £205m from concerts - but that was primarily driven by Ed Sheeran doing a number of sell out events.

Interesting reading, either way. Might disprove the point. Need to digest it later today.

 

[Adriano@10]

Both Inter and Milan rent the stadium for football, not for events. The events are handled by the municipality, unless there's some condition that one of the clubs will host. The municipality earns a lot of money in such cases as well, so there's not much incentive.

In the case of owning the stadium, we'd be seeking to host events.

You can see how any events the indoor stadium is hosting for example in contrast. Mediolanum Forum has 3-4 events per month. Teatro Repower, their other venue in the city, is fully booked over the year. Mostly local productions, but they do host international events as well when they don't have a daily/weekly ongoing project.

The other issue is that you're talking about November and December. It's raining. Not so many concerts in most of central and northern Europe going around in open spaces, are there?



Not so long ago, the Athens Olympic stadium added a car circuit in it and had the WRC race there!

You could host something like that before the Monza Grand Prix for example, or the Moto GP, with various sports cars or motocross shit. The equivalent WRC circuit is in Sardinia so that's obviously going to be tricky, but there's a variety of things you could use stadiums for.

There's the fashion week, there's the Scala which could use stadiums to have a huge concert for their 250th birthday (in 2028) or some annual festival you could host, which is something the city of Milano will lack after they demolish the Ippodromio just next to the stadium.


There's a lot of potential if you're pressing for events. The problem with sharing the stadium is that you rule out being able to host during the season, as you'll be having games at least every week and possibly during the week as well (due to Europe or the Coppa).

Tottenham is dedicating itself to host various sporting events (NFL, Rugby etc) whereas Arsenal mostly hosts concerts during the summer. Wembley is doing something in between. Sporting events during the season and concerts during the summer.


I'm not saying that you'd have 50 events a season, but even 5-6 of them would give a decent boost.


Concert season for stadiums is usually between March and September. If we share the stadium, there'll be like 1-2 concerts at best between the two clubs. And the revenues wouldn't have an effect.
Because you have to rule out every month but June and July.

Think your severely overestimating the amount of events that need a 20k+ stadium..... Or for whom it makes sense to rent a 60k stadium..
Torino s a bad proxy? How bout London? The spurs in their brand new stadium will host 2 nfl games and 2 rugby games during the football season..
3 of those are during the WC break...
Lets now look at munich same picture there the Alianz arena will hold 4 non footballing events 3 nfl games and a guns and roses concert all held during WC break...

There simply are not that many events/acts that need a 40-60k stadium or for whom it makes sense financially to rent such huge venue....Plus the alianz arena and the new spurs stadium not really neing rented out during the season should tell you that there is not that much money in there.
As in our revenue hit cause we have to split revenue with bbilan for non footballing events is gonna be a lot smaller than the savings we get from sharing the cost of building and running the stadium.

I found this report, pg 17 is quite interesting:

https://democracy.brent.gov.uk/documents/s80862/Economic%20Impact%20of%20Wembley%20Stadium%20Events.pdf

£326m from Tottenham (this is like 17/18 season), £97m from England, £78m from 'other FA events', £205m from concerts - but that was primarily driven by Ed Sheeran doing a number of sell out events.

Interesting reading, either way. Might disprove the point. Need to digest it later today.

I m assuming thats 205 mio of revenue from the concerts? Unlike the football revenue the spurs will only get a fraction of those 205 mio....
Also in those 205 mio costs for overnight stays in london are accounted for... The whole non football category which generated 326 mio according to the study of those 19 mio were spent in the stadium and 60 we re spent on tickets.. The rest was spent in london and around the stadium.
So realistically speaking the spurs only get a slice of those 79 mio...
As comparison with spurs games they made 31 mio inside of wembley and 114 mio through ticket sales...
So it s 79 vs 145 mio of revenue from ticket sales and consumption in the stadium...
As in if the stadium was shared the rev would go down to 145+39.5=184.5 vs if your alone in the stadium 224... So you d get around 21% more revenue if you own the stadium by your selfe.

Also ofcourse this calculation is not precise but it gives us ball park numbers and if anything it s skewed towards owning by your selfe as there is no way that the likes of ed sheeran will just hand you over the 60 mios he made in ticket sales so in reality that number is a lot lower...

Also i think we started the discussion that events during the season are rare any ways wether you only play there every 14 days or wether theres a game every 7 days.
I think the fact that bayern the spurs and jube all only have event scheduled for the WC break would prove my point...

 

[.h.]

Think your severely overestimating the amount of events that need a 20k+ stadium..... Or for whom it makes sense to rent a 60k stadium..
Torino s a bad proxy? How bout London? The spurs in their brand new stadium will host 2 nfl games and 2 rugby games during the football season..
3 of those are during the WC break...
Lets now look at munich same picture there the Alianz arena will hold 4 non footballing events 3 nfl games and a guns and roses concert all held during WC break...

There simply are not that many events/acts that need a 40-60k stadium or for whom it makes sense financially to rent such huge venue....Plus the alianz arena and the new spurs stadium not really neing rented out during the season should tell you that there is not that much money in there.
As in our revenue hit cause we have to split revenue with bbilan for non footballing events is gonna be a lot smaller than the savings we get from sharing the cost of building and running the stadium.

100%. Remember, we have a staggering cost to build the stadia - it'll be the 3rd most expensive footballing stadium in history (if I remember correctly). And lets be blunt, its pretty unaffordable for Inter - even with a new owner. You're basically talking to double the cost of Inter, if you want someone to build us a stadia as well. I'd rather we spent 400m on the stadium, and 400m on players, than 800m on the stadium. No one will want to watch this football.