José "The Special One" Mourinho

[wera]

Lol this thread the past few days

 

[thatdude]

Abraham has 15 Serie A goals and 9 Conference goals. So either the level of the competitions is pretty low or he isn't as bad as you make him out to be.

Abraham gets a lot of hate but he’s always been a decent scorer by the numbers at every level. It’s his all around game that is suspect.

 

[sdvroot]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1522388416423333889

 

[wera]

Abraham gets a lot of hate from one person on this forum but he’s always been a decent scorer by the numbers at every level. It’s his all around game that is suspect.

 

[brehme1989]

Abraham has 15 Serie A goals and 9 Conference goals. So either the level of the competitions is pretty low or he isn't as bad as you make him out to be.

Those two options plus these stats are rather irrelevant when you see how they came and how it could have looked if it were someone else there. And how different the team would look with someone else.

He's decent at best. He's in the 25-35 range of top forwards in the league. His transfer cost and salary combined assumes he's top 10.

 

[Strale]

Kudos to Mou. I'm embarrassed to have discarded him prematurely. A good reminder not to take hard stances on things I know shit about.

 

[Universe]

Those two options plus these stats are rather irrelevant when you see how they came and how it could have looked if it were someone else there. And how different the team would look with someone else.

He's decent at best. He's in the 25-35 range of top forwards in the league. His transfer cost and salary combined assumes he's top 10.

What?

Come on mate this is classic brehme anti-English bias, and that's coming from someone who actively roots against English teams at every opportunity. There's no way you can name 25 forwards in this league better than Tammy.

Abraham gets a lot of hate but he’s always been a decent scorer by the numbers at every level. It’s his all around game that is suspect.

If anything I think it's the other way around. Could be more clinical but his all round game looks good to me. Makes the right passes, links up well with teammates, though I think his off-the-ball movement could be better. Tammy has hit the bar a crazy amount of times too

 

[Bergpavian]

Lol this thread the past few days

I love Mou but some here act like he led Roma to the CL. In the knock-out stage he faced Vitesse Arnheim, FK Bodo/Glimt and the eleventh of the EPL - and won only three games.

 

[wera]

I think some people just love to see him winning and be happy, which I don't mind, it's just funny how praised everything he succeeds at is. At least he has a underdog club under him again, the best fit for him.

 

[brakbrak]

Those two options plus these stats are rather irrelevant when you see how they came and how it could have looked if it were someone else there. And how different the team would look with someone else.

He's decent at best. He's in the 25-35 range of top forwards in the league. His transfer cost and salary combined assumes he's top 10.

Who's the other 24?

 

[NimAraya]

What?

Come on mate this is classic brehme bias.

Fixed

 

[brehme1989]

I said forwards, not strikers. Mostly because most teams don't really have that many strikers anyway.

But here goes... In no order

1) Lautaro
2) Immobile
3) Dybala
4) Leao
5) Mertens
6) Zapata (whenever he plays)
7) Osimhen
8) Vlahovic
9) Chiesa
10) Raspadori
11) Berardi
12) Scamacca
13) Belotti (whenever he's fit)
14) Giroud
15) Zlatan (whenever he's around)
16) Sanchez (yes)
17) Morata (also, yes)
18) Insigne
19) Muriel
20) Cabral
21) Simeone
22) Boga
23) Beto
24) Nico Gonzalez (probably a forward)
25) Caprari
25+1) Obviously doesn't count now, but Perisic would also be in this list if he wasn't a wingback the last couple of years.


Then you have guys like Correa, Felipe Anderson, Joao Pedro, Deulofeu, Brekalo, Arnautovic, Lozano, and our favorite guys in Dzeko, Pinamonti and Destro trailing behind. And your mate Tammy part of this list rather than the first one... Plus a few give or take which depends on form or how shit their team is (guys like Sanabria, Okereke, Barrow, Caputo, Henry, Aramu etc come to mind)

Now you tell me if each of these guys cost only 5m that you'd pick Tammy over 25 other guys


The only reason Roma isn't part of what looks like a rather pathetic Scudetto challenge is because their striker is Abraham and not someone like Osimhen, Zapata, or even Morata...

 

[Universe]

To each their own but I'm certainly taking this Abraham over fucking Belotti of the last few years. Also Cabral? You've got to be kidding me. Dude has been a disappointment since he came to Italy. Boga has been a joke this season too. Looks completely incompatible at Atalanta as well.

 

[varmin]

I said forwards, not strikers. Mostly because most teams don't really have that many strikers anyway.

But here goes... In no order

1) Lautaro
2) Immobile
3) Dybala
4) Leao
5) Mertens
6) Zapata (whenever he plays)
7) Osimhen
8) Vlahovic
9) Chiesa
10) Raspadori
11) Berardi
12) Scamacca
13) Belotti (whenever he's fit)
14) Giroud
15) Zlatan (whenever he's around)
16) Sanchez (yes)
17) Morata (also, yes)
18) Insigne
19) Muriel
20) Cabral
21) Simeone
22) Boga
23) Beto
24) Nico Gonzalez (probably a forward)
25) Caprari
25+1) Obviously doesn't count now, but Perisic would also be in this list if he wasn't a wingback the last couple of years.


Then you have guys like Correa, Felipe Anderson, Joao Pedro, Deulofeu, Brekalo, Arnautovic, Lozano, and our favorite guys in Dzeko, Pinamonti and Destro trailing behind. And your mate Tammy part of this list rather than the first one... Plus a few give or take which depends on form or how shit their team is (guys like Sanabria, Okereke, Barrow, Caputo, Henry, Aramu etc come to mind)

Now you tell me if each of these guys cost only 5m that you'd pick Tammy over 25 other guys


The only reason Roma isn't part of what looks like a rather pathetic Scudetto challenge is because their striker is Abraham and not someone like Osimhen, Zapata, or even Morata...

This should be the most entertaining post of the decade. Caprari, Belotti, Sanchez...even don't want to comment the most of the rest. His transfer fee is 40mln, which definitely is not as high as you claim, considering that we paid 30 for Correa, and someone like Scammacca has 45mln price tag. His wage is high indeed. 4.5 mln basic with option to go up to 6 mln in some conditions. But, you miss the point that if Roma like, they can sell him back to UK in instant for at least 60mln., as EPL clubs are always ready to overspend on their own players. This is maybe the only valid point of yours. All of the rest is one big, smelly pile of craps, no personal insult involved.
Especially the part, where you say that Roma would have been scudetto's challenger with Morata or Zapata instead of Tammy

 

[bubba zanetti]

I love Mou but some here act like he led Roma to the CL. In the knock-out stage he faced Vitesse Arnheim, FK Bodo/Glimt and the eleventh of the EPL - and won only three games.

Meanwhile Cunte and Tottenham in same competition, with two class above stronger squad... Well, we know how that ended.

 

[brehme1989]

To each their own but I'm certainly taking this Abraham over fucking Belotti of the last few years. Also Cabral? You've got to be kidding me. Dude has been a disappointment since he came to Italy. Boga has been a joke this season too. Looks completely incompatible at Atalanta as well.

Cabral hasn't been "crap", he's just not settled in yet. He's barely featured anyway. He only started to play in the last few games and the entire Fiorentina team has been on holiday mode, you cannot draw a conclusion because he hasn't scored goals that he's been a disappointment or anything when the only disappointing thing is the team he's playing for.


Give him some time, a proper pre-season, at a normal club and not a self-imploding one like Fiorentina had been for years and you'll be shouting why didn't we sign this guy when we had the chance and whatnot... The guy's a gem.

This should be the most entertaining post of the decade. Caprari, Belotti, Sanchez...even don't want to comment the most of the rest. His transfer fee is 40mln, which definitely is not as high as you claim, considering that we paid 30 for Correa, and someone like Scammacca has 45mln price tag. His wage is high indeed. 4.5 mln basic with option to go up to 6 mln in some conditions. But, you miss the point that if Roma like, they can sell him back to UK in instant for at least 60mln., as EPL clubs are always ready to overspend on their own players. This is maybe the only valid point of yours. All of the rest is one big, smelly pile of craps, no personal insult involved.
Especially the part, where you say that Roma would have been scudetto's challenger with Morata or Zapata instead of Tammy

Having the potential to sell him back to a stupid PL club is not really a thing that matters. They paid 45m euros for him. He's had a few important goals but that's about it, it's not like they were 'Tammy Abraham goals', they were simply "no player can miss those" kind of goals. Some with the knee or stomach or dick without even looking at the ball, whilst on the line or a fluke here or there. He's not tearing anything up, he's just the only striker that Roma has at the moment since Shomurodov is a 4th choice striker at best and they literally have no one else and had to bring up a 16 year old kid to play instead of Tammy whenever he was shit, which was quite a lot.

The numbers look good because Roma attacks a lot, but they have the worst conversion rate out of the top 10 teams when including Europe and only Juventus has a slightly worse conversion rate than them. Who's leading the Roma attack? Well, there you go...
He's a Sampdoria/Udinese level striker, not a player for a team that wants to play in the Champions League. He can score, we knew that before, but in order to get him scoring you need to sacrifice a lot of team goals. And Roma does not have the capacity to bombard and overrun teams to get both team goals and a bunch of personal goals for Tammy (whereas for example we had this luxury in the previous two seasons for Lukaku).

Conference League groups were a hybrid of Serie B and relegation battling Serie A teams, so I wouldn't put too much in the 6 goals he scored in the group stage. Roma scored 15 goals in the groups and even managed to concede 11....


Uninspiring when he meets the ball, doesn't really know how to pass/cross, cannot hit the ball properly like a striker, but he has a few qualities like knowing how to move in the box which helps him get scoring chances but he messes them up a lot.


xG is a shitty hipster stat that doesn't really follow the logic of football, but even there's he's probably one of the only 10+ Serie A goalscorers that has a significantly higher xG than actual goals scored. It's something like 18 xG versus 15 goals scored, everyone else either has higher or at least is closer to that shitty metric. Our guys for example have marginally higher xG over goals but then you see Napoli where Osimhen has 13 goals and his hipster stat suggests 11xG, Mertens 11 goals instead of 4.5 hipster goals, Leao has 10 goals when the hipsters expected 7 goals, Vlahovic has 23 goals and his hipster stat suggests 16, Immobile 27 goals over 21 hipster goals and so on.



And this doesn't even account the times he lost the ball and didn't complete the shot attempt. Lautaro for example has too many blocked shots, I think only Raspadori has as much in the league.
Tammy also ranks almost at the top in minutes played. And his main competition is a 17 year old.


He has some potential but he's nowhere near a top 10 forward in this league. He'd probably be 5th in the pecking order at Inter.


Now you tell me with all honesty, all players are available, they all cost let's say 5m and a 3m net salary. You're going for Tammy?

 

[Bergpavian]

Cabral hasn't been "crap", he's just not settled in yet. He's barely featured anyway. He only started to play in the last few games and the entire Fiorentina team has been on holiday mode, you cannot draw a conclusion because he hasn't scored goals that he's been a disappointment or anything when the only disappointing thing is the team he's playing for.

But you can say he's better than Abraham because he had a good half season in Switzerland?

Meanwhile Cunte and Tottenham in same competition, with two class above stronger squad... Well, we know how that ended.

The fact that Tottenham and Conte did worse doesn't make Mou's achievement bigger.

 

[brehme1989]

But you can say he's better than Abraham because he had a good half season in Switzerland?

No, I'm saying he's better because he does look better and can do things that Tammy cannot while also being able to do what Tammy can.
And it's not half, it's 2.5...


Scamacca never had a great season, but we can all say that he looks better than Dzeko or Giroud.

 

[varmin]

Having the potential to sell him back to a stupid PL club is not really a thing that matters. They paid 45m euros for him.

It's a thing that actually matters, because they are not PSG, City or United with unlimited funds. As every Italian club, this is an important factor to be considered and knowing that you can sell him back to EPL for a decent sum if he flops, reduce the potential risk of the deal.

He's had a few important goals but that's about it, it's not like they were 'Tammy Abraham goals', they were simply "no player can miss those" kind of goals. Some with the knee or stomach or dick without even looking at the ball, whilst on the line or a fluke here or there. He's not tearing anything up, he's just the only striker that Roma has at the moment since Shomurodov is a 4th choice striker at best and they literally have no one else and had to bring up a 16 year old kid to play instead of Tammy whenever he was shit, which was quite a lot.

This is ridiculous. These excuses could be applied to almost every forward, as any one of them has easy goals. Shomurodov sucks it's not Tammy's fault, it's due to his own abilities. And this is actually the job of the forward. Put him on front and expect him to score goals. Abraham is doing quite fine for now.

The numbers look good because Roma attacks a lot, but they have the worst conversion rate out of the top 10 teams when including Europe and only Juventus has a slightly worse conversion rate than them. Who's leading the Roma attack? Well, there you go...
He's a Sampdoria/Udinese level striker, not a player for a team that wants to play in the Champions League. He can score, we knew that before, but in order to get him scoring you need to sacrifice a lot of team goals. And Roma does not have the capacity to bombard and overrun teams to get both team goals and a bunch of personal goals for Tammy (whereas for example we had this luxury in the previous two seasons for Lukaku).

This is bullshit. First of all, Roma are playing more counter attacking football than pure attacking one. Second, he's been contributing for building of Roma's attacks and creating chances. Example for a forward, who is quite dependant of his t teammates and it's has to sacrifice team's goals of n order to feed him, is your buddy Icardi.

Conference League groups were a hybrid of Serie B and relegation battling Serie A teams, so I wouldn't put too much in the 6 goals he scored in the group stage. Roma scored 15 goals in the groups and even managed to concede 11....


Uninspiring when he meets the ball, doesn't really know how to pass/cross, cannot hit the ball properly like a striker, but he has a few qualities like knowing how to move in the box which helps him get scoring chances but he messes them up a lot.


xG is a shitty hipster stat that doesn't really follow the logic of football, but even there's he's probably one of the only 10+ Serie A goalscorers that has a significantly higher xG than actual goals scored. It's something like 18 xG versus 15 goals scored, everyone else either has higher or at least is closer to that shitty metric. Our guys for example have marginally higher xG over goals but then you see Napoli where Osimhen has 13 goals and his hipster stat suggests 11xG, Mertens 11 goals instead of 4.5 hipster goals, Leao has 10 goals when the hipsters expected 7 goals, Vlahovic has 23 goals and his hipster stat suggests 16, Immobile 27 goals over 21 hipster goals and so on.

And this doesn't even account the times he lost the ball and didn't complete the shot attempt. Lautaro for example has too many blocked shots, I think only Raspadori has as much in the league.
Tammy also ranks almost at the top in minutes played. And his main competition is a 17 year old.

Many words, no content.

He has some potential but he's nowhere near a top 10 forward in this league. He'd probably be 5th in the pecking order at Inter.


Now you tell me with all honesty, all players are available, they all cost let's say 5m and a 3m net salary. You're going for Tammy?

In those conditions, of course I wouldn't pick up him, but Oshimen or Vlahovic, as I personally like them a lot, but this is some imaginery fantasy football. In reality, we had a real chance to get Tammy inserted in Lukaku's deal. Something like 80mln+Abraham was quite possible option, and I'm dare to say that would have been much better than spending 30 mln on Correa. And if he was at Inter, he definitely wouldn't have been 5th choice. He would have came instead of Correa and we would have already won the title most probably.

 

[wera]

Horrible debate. Just stop. You lost me with Cabral has just not settled in, like we are talking in hypoteticals. In that case Džeko is better than Tammy, because he used to be a beast!