Rafael Benítez

Do you want Rafa fired?


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CafeCordoba

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Wise words. But we have to remember, Benitez is a professional. He should SEE that you can't play like you want with this team. You have to play like the team can play. You can't force these veterans to play in a way they've never played. It doesn't fucking work. It's embarrassing for Benitez that it's November and he still doesn't have a clear game plan. He tries this ball possession bullshit still and on the pitch it looks no Inter player knows what to do, where to move etc. That is coach's fault and no one else's.
 

a4win

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42 so Actually you said you accept, if you paid 3 millions to someone en cannot motivated your team?
 

mario.santon

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I guess it was pretty similar to Spur's loss.. It was a tactical loss.... Even with this injuries, we could still beat the monkeys..
 

Stefan

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We can blame Rafa for yesterdays Derby loss, afterwards everyone knows better. Playing Matrix, not playing Santon etc. was wrong. But remember Santons performance against Lecce, it was horrible. Many people have a short memory, Rafa had his reasons. But in the end they were wrong, so he did his part in loosing.

But the whole situation we are in is much much worse and is a mixture of many things:

Moratti for not spending in market and selling instead ( thinking that this team is perfect is one big mistake )

A team that won everything and as a consequence isn't that motivated anymore. It is normal and no coach can do something against it. This happens to every team.

Our most important players not performing and only thinking of new fancy contracts or transfers : Maicon, Sneijder, Milito.
It's like we lost these 3.

Injuries making about the half team unavailable. Like in old days.

So blaming the coach would be shortminded. Mourinho wasn't that Mister Unreachable as some people are making him to be. He lost us games like Benitez yesterday. Only difference the whole situation is fucked up so every error counts ten times. Rafa will be the scapegoat for people who don't go under the surface, none can stop this. But we should know better.

Rafa did mistakes yesterday but so did Mourinho. What worries me is that Moratti hires a coach who has a different way to approach the game but refuses him any transfers. We knew what we get when we hired Mouinho and he got his players. But to hire Rafa and not giving him some players is something I don't understand, even more if the squad has no depth at all. To think that our players, especially our midfield can play the football Rafa prefers is just fucked up.

Everyone makes mistakes but it has no sense to give Rafa the blame for everything. We should see the whole picture. The errors began at the top and ends at the bottom. We can only hope that we don't lose to much ground until january. But this transfer window won't solve us all problems.

Actually its not with hindsight many of us said this was a horrible idea days before the game when the media started speculating about this lineup. Santon had one bad game. How many bad games has chivu had this season but he still got to start every game?? When last did cordoba and matrix have a good game??

Mourinho's inter bounced back after every bad game. The same about mancini's inter, they never went 4 straight games without winning in the league.

What basically can be done about it? Is it due to tactics or motivation...?

Its both. Rafa is not getting the most out of the players and he is also making a lot of tactical errors.
 

RafaTheOne

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Wise words. But we have to remember, Benitez is a professional. He should SEE that you can't play like you want with this team. You have to play like the team can play. You can't force these veterans to play in a way they've never played. It doesn't fucking work. It's embarrassing for Benitez that it's November and he still doesn't have a clear game plan. He tries this ball possession bullshit still and on the pitch it looks no Inter player knows what to do, where to move etc. That is coach's fault and no one else's.

They may not have adopted possession football with inter. But the players play possession football for their countries(Brazil, Holland, Argentina).
 

Stefan

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bump? Any mod/admin?

I will have a look at it. The issue is I will have to close/remove the previous poll.
 

Pajo

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so what, we already know the result :D its been there for few months now :)
 

CafeCordoba

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Inter's win-draw-loss stats from previous seasons:

07-08
25 10 3

08-09
25 9 4

09-10
24 10 4

So far Benitez has "used" already half of the draws and losses, and we're not even close to the middle point of the season. And when we remember how worse we normally are in the second part of the season compared to the first part, this really isn't looking that great. Of course, Milan probably aren't as consistent as Inter has been in recent years and thus Scudetto winner doesn't need those kind of stats to win the championship, these numbers are still pretty damn worrying.

How far can we wait for the results? Scudetto can be lost already in the autumn if we continue to struggle like this.
 

NimAraya

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Mourinho's inter bounced back after every bad game. The same about mancini's inter, they never went 4 straight games without winning in the league.
.

Did you forget our last year 12 points lead over Roma which was gone by a series of consecutive poor results? We had almost another same scenario in Mancini's era too.
 

Stefan

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Did you forget our last year 12 points lead over Roma which was gone by a series of consecutive poor results? We had almost another same scenario in Mancini's era too.

You forget during that same period we were still performing in the cl knockout games. Rafa's inter is underperforming in both the league and cl.
 

CafeCordoba

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Last season we had exactly two moments where we lost points in TWO consecutive matches. In December against Juventus and Atalanta (2-1 and 1-1), and then in February against Napoli and Genoa (0-0 and 0-0). Other than those two, we always win after a point loss (draw or defeat).

In Mourinho's first season, we had two moments when we lose points in two consecutive matches and one moment when we lost points in three consecutive matches.

Now, we have already one moment when we've lost points in two consecutive matches and one moment when we've lost points in three consecutive matches. And it's not even a middle point of the season.
 

Hussein

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Wise words. But we have to remember, Benitez is a professional. He should SEE that you can't play like you want with this team. You have to play like the team can play. You can't force these veterans to play in a way they've never played. It doesn't fucking work. It's embarrassing for Benitez that it's November and he still doesn't have a clear game plan. He tries this ball possession bullshit still and on the pitch it looks no Inter player knows what to do, where to move etc. That is coach's fault and no one else's.

I totally agree with Cafe there. As a coach the first thing you have to do is to understand the team's strengths and weaknesses. That's the main difference between Mourinho and Rafa.

You guys surely remember when Mourinho started his reign at Inter he insisted on changing the team's module from 4-3-1-2 rombo to the his favorite 4-3-3 and when things were not working he understood immediately that he has to change and go back to Mancio's system. In his second year and after getting the players capable of meeting his demands he was able to change the module to the famous 4-2-3-1.

On the other hand, Rafa is insisting on committing the same mistakes so far, obviously he wasn't helped with our injury crisis but his refusal to amend our formation according to what we have available has been astonishing. Although we have not conceded many goals in Serie A this season, we haven't been able to score as we always did in previous years, in other words, the team is not functioning as an attacking unit and seeing that 1/3 of the season has gone, still Rafa has no answer for that.

Trying to change Inter's style is not a wise idea at this time. Our veterans are not use to it and unless there's a dramatic change in personnel it won't work. Again Rafa has to understand that clearly because the likes of Chivu will not become fast and creative all of a sudden at the age of 30.

Rafa needs to understand that Chivu was used as a left back for certain reasons (Sale of Maxwell and the long injury to Santon), he is a center back to start with so there's no point of insisting on using him as a left back. That's just an example of the few things you need to tweak in order to get this team to function as a unit again.

We all know that his options are limited at the moment and that's why I'm not putting all the blame on him, but I at least want to see common sense used. I remember saying the same few months back when we lost the Super Cup and I will repeat this again. Some common sense Rafa.
 

Pajo

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Well, lets take it last year.. Werent we 14 points infront of everyone else? But we underperfromed in the CL group stage. We managed qualify. After, we were average in serie A and we lost those 14 points lead. But we performed in CL.. Managed to beat chelsea, CSKA and barca first leg. THan when we HAD TO, we performed like hell in EVERY competition, including the Cup... Which hasnt started yet this year...

Will rafa be able to do that, even with full squad? play perfect in all 3 competitions? Most importantly, will THE PLAYERS be willing to do that for rafa? To play under painkillers, and to sacrifice themselfs for the benefit of the team/coach? i doubt tbh, i really doubt...

and yet, i dont want to see rafa sacket, not now, not until we see another good coach available...
 

qwertystfu

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Well, lets take it last year.. Werent we 14 points infront of everyone else? But we underperfromed in the CL group stage. We managed qualify. After, we were average in serie A and we lost those 14 points lead. But we performed in CL.. Managed to beat chelsea, CSKA and barca first leg. THan when we HAD TO, we performed like hell in EVERY competition, including the Cup... Which hasnt started yet this year...

Will rafa be able to do that, even with full squad? play perfect in all 3 competitions? Most importantly, will THE PLAYERS be willing to do that for rafa? To play under painkillers, and to sacrifice themselfs for the benefit of the team/coach? i doubt tbh, i really doubt...

and yet, i dont want to see rafa sacket, not now, not until we see another good coach available...

Luis Andre Pina Cabral Villas Boas
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/André_Villas_Boas

After starting at a very young age on several positions in F.C. Porto's observation department under the guidance of then manager Bobby Robson and a short stint as head coach of the British Virgin Islands national football team, Villas-Boas moved onto a career as an assistant under the management of José Mourinho at Porto. As Mourinho moved clubs to Chelsea and Internazionale, Villas-Boas followed suit.
 

Inter Inter

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Hope you guys don't mind if I copy paste this post below from bibonzo from the Writers thread. It's long, but insightful and relevant to the discussion in this thread.




Originally Posted by bibonzo
First lets address the transfer part. Out of 5 player that were sold only Balotelli played a part in the whole season, others that featured from that list in a couple of games did more bad than good. Balo while he had a big impact at times, nobody can deny this, he evened it out with his bad performance. He got red cards when he started and played totally opposite than he was instructed costing us points in the process. That's why majority were for his sale and not against, he had a big impact but it worked in both ways. If anything I only agree on this that Benitez never got his joker player that he would use when things are ruff. Our only mistake on mercato.

Now to transfer targets. Bare in mind Rafa had a vision we will play sexy possession football, he came here with the intention to prove something. Realistically we could get Kuyt, Mascherano and Sculli. In fact this are the player he wanted and asked for! Fabregas was mentioned but in reality that was more fiction than reality.

Kuyt is no Balo, he plays and contributes when a team plays good around him. Hardly a game changer more a support player that does a fair amount of dirty work in his position. Could he improve us? Hardly looking at our style and tactics. He has very little pace, passing is average, can't create something out of nothing and his goal and assist ratio isn't really unbelievable. Actually I believe he would fit right in more miserable performances with the way we are playing.

Mascherano, eh what to say? A world class DM. Again why would we get a another DM when we want to play possession football with 3 man midfield. Hes great at everything he does except passing and spreading the play witch is our problem. 30million is a waste of money for something we already have in no less than 4 options (Cambiasso, Zanetti, Mariga and Muntari - even if Muntari sucks its still doesn't change the fact we have options). What we needed is a Schweinsteiger/Banega/Lampard type of player. Benitez never asked for this type of player.

Sculli: If Kuyt never fitted there is no point in even discussing this. I would take Biabiany and Couthino any day.

So the whole point here is that we had no realistic targets that would improve things over the current setup of players. The ones that would give us the edge had a price tag of around 40 million and on top of that they were all tied and happy where they are. Even further we wasted the whole summer trying bringing Ben's men (Mascha, Kuyt) because he probably gave his word to Branca that they will come if we offer fair deals. Both gave the boot 2 days before the transfer closed. Miracles are not possible in such a short period. In the end it was not a big issue. We had a fantastic squad that did great and the general consensus was that we will improve in winter if needed. Later on I will compare the 2 systems between Bens and Mou's Inter that may share some light on why do key players perform so bad. But first things first.

I'll reanalyze as short as I can 2 years Mou had and the whole thing that "he got what he wanted" in transfers. In his first season he got what he wanted and everybody knows how it went. All 3 signings that costed 60 million were flops. He quickly reverted back to what Mancini used and made the most of it pushing Ibra to his season all high ever. We also had a fairly respectable kick out from CL from Manchester (finalist in the end), while the first game was bad that finished 0:0 we put up a fair fight in the second leg were we looked like a respectable team opposed to years under Mancini were we were embarrassed regularly.

That story ended and we got to last year. Branca secured Milito and Motta for Mou before the Ibra saga. This were supposed to be the only signings for Mourinho since the management decided they wont give him what he wants because last time it was a disaster. So they asked him what type of player he needs and they will show him realistic targets, after that he approved guys that he liked. When the option to sell Ibra occurred Mourinho was heavily against it but it went ahead, if it was up to him Ibra would still be here. But it never was in his hands. Branca got him Eto in return and promised a playmaker since he just lost Ibra. Snijder was a option and he got him in the last minute.

Lucio was surplus at Bayern and declared useless. Free transfer.
Sneijder was a wash out from Real, and he just had the worst season of his life.
Motta was a wash out from Barca that had a reputation of a injury prone player that played on and off. After several years of struggling threw mid table clubs he put 1 solid season for Genoa.
Eto a world class poacher that had a reputation of doing only good if he has good supply. In Mous eyes certainly a downgrade from Ibra.
Milito a player that had a proven record at medium level. Many question marks on how will he cope at Inter.

All of them costed around 41 million, less than what Inter got for Ibra alone. Not exactly cream of the crop if you see what I mean. Hardly choices Mou made since he had a taste in more in form, more expensive people.

So he lost his best guy, got a bunch of wash outs and got the pressure he needs to deliver in Europe. He integrated them in a completely new system in record time and rolled on. They all played well more or less. Now lets talk about tactics and the way this 2 Inters are completely different one from another despite sharing the same players and the system.

Mou's biggest characteristic was that the team was able to adopt to situations on the field and there opponents. While many refer to it as counter attacking football it was mostly direct football. The whole philosophy was to get in a scoring situation as fast as possible without to much bs. Something Porto, Chelsea and today Real plays. We had games that we controlled completely in every aspect and games that were pure counter attacking football that was heavily based on defending. Every player had a role. We had Zanetti or Cambiasso covering Maicons spot when he roamed forward, we had wingers tracking back and a very mobile 3 man midfield that effectively pressured part of the field were our opponent had the ball. Sneijder was placed much deeper and he was in charge for distribution and long balls. Milito was left alone and wide positions and placement of our wingers gave him space and opportunity to do what he does best since hes a gap exploiter.

I mentioned this because this is were the problem for Rafa's Inter lies and why some players under perform. We play in the same system but its not the same. Our wingers are turned in to inside forwards and they are given no defensive duties. Our 3 man midfield is turned in to 2 man midfield. Sneijder is placed so high that we can see him 80% of time standing right next to our solo striker no matter who that is, with this move Benitez effectively robbed us from his two biggest strengths. Long accurate deadly balls that resulted in many goals last season and the opportunity for him to dictate our play. What he does now is he overlaps with whoever is our striker and shots whenever he has a chance, cant blame him really since we press so high there is no room to do anything else.

Eto is given green light to enter Militos area when they both play whenever he wants, we stack up in attack in around 10 meters with all of our att options. So far he manged to get the most of it but he wont be able to produce every game without support. Hes form will decline and we will be in deep shit. Actually it already started.

Maicon was never unbelievable at defending, he was solid but most of the time under Mou he had help or somebody closing the gap when he leaves and goes forward. Why we see so little of it under Ben is because he gets no support at all and the gap he leaves stays open. Therefor he is instructed to stay put more and hes mostly pined down by the opposition who are lurking around his area. Same story with Chivu who has real problems with speedy players, he was fairly good under Mou.

We are instructed to play as high as Barca. We have slow and big CB's, this situation hardly helps them. They are left most of time dealing with fast wingers and att on the brake that beat them quite easily. Now that Lucio was given green light to ram whenever he wants forward hardly helps the situation, this is something Mou limited to a absolute minimum(Lucio stayed at his place 99% of time). When we do get the ball players tend to slow it down and play as opposed to Mou's system where it was the sole purpose to hit opponents as fast as possible on a unorganized defense.

Why Milito sucks so much? Because hes a gap exploiter and he will never work in this type of system. Rollback and see most of his goals. Fast brake he gets the ball usually behind or between the defense and shoots. He never dribbled past 5 defenders. Since we slow our game, there is no one to put a long ball (Snijder as striker) he gets lost. He is constantly marked in small space by several defenders and since most teams bunker down there is no space to exploit or move to. The fact that Sneijder and Eto both stack up around him doesn't help ether. We have absolutely no width all players move inside. Our play is orchestrated by Zanetti, Canbiasso or Stankovic. There is no plan on how to play the team just moves the ball around and then somebody, mostly Eto or Sneijder, shot from somewhere.

Benitez absolutely has no clue on how to use this guys nor does he have any gameplan ready.

On to injuries since they seem to be the main problem. Sure I don't deny they had a impact but they were not as bad from the start. They got unbelievable bad just a week ago, Benitez still had a more than a respectable team to play. Mou had his problems during the season, he lost Chivu for most of the season, Snijder was banned and injured for short periods same as Motta, Cambiasso, Samuel, balo was put in the stands........etc. The only difference is that Benitez had them all at once. But they are all short term except for Samuel and they affected only 1 game completely. Mou worked without any defenders in his first season for more than a month and he still finished in style. As far as the bench remark goes show me a top team that has a better bench and skip Barca while your at it. The bench is about having solid players and we have exactly that. Nobody has world class players on the bench!

The problem is team played bad long before injuries pooped out, so we can have a nice debate on how much would it help. We had 2 good half's and 2 good games so far, we beaten Roma in supercopa who were a total mess at the time and we trashed Werder 4:0 that was in a relegation zone in Germany that conceded 3 goals per game against everybody. We had Tottenham trashed because they were scared, in the second half they pulled 3 back threw Bale that destroyed us in the return leg. Funny how he didn't put this type of performances against anybody else in England. Out of 3 derbies we got a point from possible 9 at home against Juve. Athletico trashed us, Twente played on pair with us and teams from relegation zone Lecce and Brescia made a name for themselves. Actually the only respectable victory we got under Benitez was a 0:1 at Palermo witch was in reality a bad game where we pulled one from Eto in a more than even game, it also needs to be noted Palermo is less than impressive so far.

Benitez's Inter wins less than 40% of its games(his usual percent at liverpool), that means we barely win every other game. Inter is known for strong starts in post Calciopoli era and both Mou and Mancini busted around 70% wins at this very same time under there control. Inter always dipped in form after the winter if we play this bad now I'm really scared how it will look then. Both M&M have a record of 62% wins during there time in all competitions. Right now Eto is involved in 45% of every goal we made, Ibra was involved in only 15% during the so called one man show era. We have the worst scoring record in the last 8 years in Seria A scoring only 13 goals from 12 games compared to last season when we had close to 30. Aperantlly we are playing attacking football compared to last season, a neutral would not agree.

In the end Beitez was brought for continuity (Moratti exact words) nobody asked him to invent something better. He was chosen because Pools style was similar. So from were the fuck did he get the idea to play like Barca?

Seriously how the fuck this doesn't worry you or that Benitez doesn't have anything to do with it? If anything Juve is the prime example how some player function better under a competent coach. Did Obi, Mariga or other players had a though WC? His over stressing players with his shitty training. I don't know who can we get but Benitez needs to move on simple as that. He might not be a bad coach but he just doesn't fit here.

ps. sorry for the mistakes I'm sure there are many, I'm not good at English and it took me a long time to wright this
 

Maslany

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Benitez should change his tactics! I was one of the first to defend him, but now it's obvious that something isn't working. Too many injuries, and the players on the field are playing without any clue, they are literally confused and unmotivated. The whole formation has to be changed. Last year we had a goal and everybody knew what they're doing! He HAS to change things, otherwise i don't want him here.
 

Pajo

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Luis Andre Pina Cabral Villas Boas
http://www.zerozerofootball.fr/treinador.php?id=1431
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/André_Villas_Boas

After starting at a very young age on several positions in F.C. Porto's observation department under the guidance of then manager Bobby Robson and a short stint as head coach of the British Virgin Islands national football team, Villas-Boas moved onto a career as an assistant under the management of José Mourinho at Porto. As Mourinho moved clubs to Chelsea and Internazionale, Villas-Boas followed suit.

yeah, but he is not available... :) i said, AVAILABLE coach...
 

thorn

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What basically can be done about it? Is it due to tactics or motivation...?
if he was that good as you say..we will find one way or the other to avoid loss.we won against 2-0 with 10 players.we drew another match with 9 man last year.thats what coaches are paid for.to organise and find solutions to problems
 
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