Sebastiano Esposito

[thatdude]

Faild in terms of they did not turn out good enough to stay at inter and be regular contributors, heck they turned out to be not good enough for top clubs period. Wether the reason was talent or not does not matter. My point was to illustrate that there is no guarantee that if you give these players playing time that you ll have a better result than loaning them out. Many more top players at top clubs were at non top clubs or loaned out when they were under 20 than top players that spent all their careers at top clubs.
Also we gave other players chances that were young but that simply did not work out, heck arna is one of them, then there was karamoh, castagnos, pinamonti and probably many more i ve forgotten that got a chance here and were not able to take it. And no if the coach does not play you it does not mean you did not get a fair chance maybe you just were not good enough in training......


Where are all those supposedly super talented players that we did not give a chance to now? Maybe if they spend their prime in lower to midtable serie a teams our scouts and our coaches were right when hey judged em.

Again only pirlo and coutinho come to mind as players we did not give enough chances to that really made it big....
The assumption that because we did not give em chances they never amounted to nothing seems a bit far fetched as we usually dont hold on to them that long.

How can you say Balotelli wasn’t good enough for Inter? He’s probably the most talented striker Italy produced in his generation. He benched Dzeko at Man City on the way to a title win, starting striker for Italian national team. Santon had the talent to play for Inter as well, let’s not forget we brought him back to the club. Unfortunately for him his career was plagued with meniscus injuries.

Here’s the thing, the primary issue most of us have is the lack of development for talents in Italy and at Inter. Are other countries developing more players from their talent pool because their talent pool is actually better? Or because their talent pool actually gets opportunities to grow?

The results in youth football are the best indicator we have for whether or not the pool actually has talent. Italy youth teams are doing tremendously well. Not quite at the level of Spain but not far behind. Something happens to these talents between 18 and 22.

Other countries don’t send their youth to the 3rd division at 19 to mature. It’s really only Italy that has this mentality. Yet we’re supposed to believe that it’s because they’re not talented enough. But the results say otherwise.

 

[.h.]

So now we include players who had development loans and players who came from other clubs? Then the list on aforementioned clubs would become a lot longer.

I don't want to drag this further as we just disagree on this so i will simply say this. We do it but we don't do it at a sufficient rate imo. Hopefully this will change with Oaktree.

I dunno bro I'm trying to work out what the criteria is. First it was primavera direct to youth team then it seemed to move to include some loans as well etc. is your point we don't develop youngsters or we don't develop primavera youth?

 

[Adriano@10]

Pinamonti at 25 has had 40 Serie A goals. Arna at 25 had not even half from Bundesliga and Premier League. And he is a Serie B player, that's the fact. Don't even let me mention Balo.

Even though Pinamonti isn't good enough for Inter, he brought us 20m, a steal. So I don't bitch shit had we given any kids more minutes. More minutes more money. As for Arna, ofc I wouldn't have been stupid cheering for developing a kid for Twente lol. They owned him, not Inter.

Pinamonti has a serie a goal every 305 minutes he played arnautovic had one every 175 mins....also the guy your calling a serie B player plays for the champions of italy meanwhile the according to you better player is playing in serie b....

You think we could not have bought him if we wanted to?
Also that claim of playing youth and their price will automatically go up is BS, if they dont perform their value wont increase. Also this is alao true if we send them on loan so what your point exactly?

How can you say Balotelli wasn’t good enough for Inter? He’s probably the most talented striker Italy produced in his generation. He benched Dzeko at Man City on the way to a title win, starting striker for Italian national team. Santon had the talent to play for Inter as well, let’s not forget we brought him back to the club. Unfortunately for him his career was plagued with meniscus injuries.

Here’s the thing, the primary issue most of us have is the lack of development for talents in Italy and at Inter. Are other countries developing more players from their talent pool because their talent pool is actually better? Or because their talent pool actually gets opportunities to grow?

The results in youth football are the best indicator we have for whether or not the pool actually has talent. Italy youth teams are doing tremendously well. Not quite at the level of Spain but not far behind. Something happens to these talents between 18 and 22.

Other countries don’t send their youth to the 3rd division at 19 to mature. It’s really only Italy that has this mentality. Yet we’re supposed to believe that it’s because they’re not talented enough. But the results say otherwise.

Cause at 32 he was playing for fucken sion and in his whole career he never made it at a big club.... like how can you argue he was good enough? Talent wise yes but everything else that is needed to be a top athleth he did not have....
Also both santon and balo are arguments in my favour if you are promising enough you ll get playibg time. That does not mean you ll make it
He benched dzeko but the most starts in epl he ever got at city was 17 as in less than half the prem games?
Also ask any city fan who they have more fond memories off balo or dzeko?
Dont get me wrong balo is one of the best u18 players i ve ever seen but he did not reach hia potential despite getting early playing time cause there is a lot more to becoming a wc player than just talent and experiance...

Again where are all these talents that dont get a chance in italy that shine so bright in other places? Remember casadei did chelsea play him or loan him out?

 

[PHM1605]

Pinamonti has a serie a goal every 305 minutes he played arnautovic had one every 175 mins....also the guy your calling a serie B player plays for the champions of italy meanwhile the according to you better player is playing in serie b....

You think we could not have bought him if we wanted to?
Also that claim of playing youth and their price will automatically go up is BS, if they dont perform their value wont increase. Also this is alao true if we send them on loan so what your point exactly?

Now I see you twist the number to prove the "talent" of Arna. We are discussing a young Arna, arent we? He proved shit as a youngster more than Pina, fact.

By your logic Correa is better than Osimhen coz one is playing for a midtable and one is playing for the Champions of Italy?

If we dont care for our own youngster, nobody cares. They use him only for their usability on the pitch, not to boost the kid value then us pocketting the money. Tell me a single thing Moise Kean or Illing Jr did right to justify their price tag. Another fact for you is that Juve collected fucking 35m for them to buy Doulas Luiz. While you guys are still sitting here microscoping the "talent" of a nearly retired crap eating a minus 10m pa.

 

[Il Drago]

I dunno bro I'm trying to work out what the criteria is. First it was primavera direct to youth team then it seemed to move to include some loans as well etc. is your point we don't develop youngsters or we don't develop primavera youth?

I am not the one moving the goalposts. Earlier in the thread you put the criteria of academy players who get a chance straight to their parent top clubs without having development loans first. I played along and typed a list of players who fit those criteria. Then you brought up Asslani, Bisseck and Basoni to broaden the criteria.

 

[.h.]

I am not the one moving the goalposts. Earlier in the thread you put the criteria of academy players who get a chance straight to their parent top clubs without having development loans first. I played along and typed a list of players who fit those criteria. Then you brought up Asslani, Bisseck and Basoni to broaden the criteria.

Well no, you mentioned Bisseck so I thought the goalposts shifted. Right, I'm clearer now.

 

[Il Drago]

Well no, you mentioned Bisseck so I thought the goalposts shifted. Right, I'm clearer now.

My apologies for the misunderstanding. I mentioned him in the general argument that you can't develop players if you're focused on winning. I should have made it more clear.

 

[.h.]

My apologies for the misunderstanding. I mentioned him in the general argument that you can't develop players if you're focused on winning. I should have made it more clear.

No it's ok I think you were fairly clear, just juggling a few threads at the same time crossed wires.

Honestly though I do think, for example, Bastoni and Bisseck are a good testimony to the fact that that we will take the shot if the opportunity comes up. Sure, neither were developed at Inter but it's not like they went through 4 years of development loans before getting the shot either.

I do think the U23 will help as mentioned thousands of times in being able to retain a decent prospect while both giving them game time, and if they explode it's a "small decision" to give them more first team exposure rather than a big decision as it is now

May be naive about that but I'm hopeful it makes a material impact. I could easily see eg Zanotti coming back next year into the U23s but as a peripheral to the first team

 

[CafeCordoba]

My apologies for the misunderstanding. I mentioned him in the general argument that you can't develop players if you're focused on winning. I should have made it more clear.

To me, at Italy that still applies.

We didn't develop Bastoni or Bisseck per se. They developed or hopefully develop along the way. But the reason they played is they were good enough for Inter, not that club wanted to develop them.

I trust enough our coaching staffs and coaches (for the past 8 years Spalletti, Conte, Inzaghi) that they can determine for themselves if the young players at their disposal are good enough or not.

 

[Corrode]

Funny cause arna is one of the more talented players we had at the club in the last 15 years we sent him away he s now much better than he was when he was u20 and yet your bitching about his perfomances i wonder how you would have reacted had we keep him around and given him more playing time....
Common now

Inter didn't even own Arnautobitch at the time. He was just a loanee from Twente. His skill has been meh since the time, even now. He failed to reach the first team at Mourinho regime besides Milito, Eto'o, Pandev, and Balotelli. even he created some problematic issues like racism and arrogant attitude in front of Mourinho eyes. Then, Inter didn't buy him permanently at the end of the season and left for Bremen.

 

[Adriano@10]

Now I see you twist the number to prove the "talent" of Arna. We are discussing a young Arna, arent we? He proved shit as a youngster more than Pina, fact.

By your logic Correa is better than Osimhen coz one is playing for a midtable and one is playing for the Champions of Italy?

If we dont care for our own youngster, nobody cares. They use him only for their usability on the pitch, not to boost the kid value then us pocketting the money. Tell me a single thing Moise Kean or Illing Jr did right to justify their price tag. Another fact for you is that Juve collected fucking 35m for them to buy Doulas Luiz. While you guys are still sitting here microscoping the "talent" of a nearly retired crap eating a minus 10m pa.

What twists even when younger again arna at twente was good enough that a club like inter wanted him on loan... Meanwhile pinamonti was loaned to low serie a clubs and serie b sides....
I compared their serie a stats cause same league... not trying to twist anything but your also casually ignoring that arna at Bremen was playing RW quite often... and their goalscoring stats have been similar otherwise before 25...

Nah my logic is show me a single quality player that goes to serie B at 25 (cunts who stayed with jube dont count)? Why are teams not lining up to sign pinamonti?
Maybe you are to young to remembered but arna was considered a big talent with Mentality/temper issues.. the sheer fact that we Inter in our prime wanted him here even on loan should tell you that...... How many big teams lined up for pina? after his senior debut?

Also the whole debate was around getting our primavera players more time instead of loaning them so that they get better. I brought up the likes of arna coutinho kova to show even the young ones who we buy/loan and who mostly get paying time dont automatically become good enough for inter.


I get it you see todays arna and you think he s shit which is fair enough but pina aint better and never was. heck at 22 pina managed to get a grand total of 8 appearances with us and he was 4th choice...
Like either you assume our coaches have no fucken clue or then pina just aint as good as you think he is.

Inter didn't even own Arnautobitch at the time. He was just a loanee from Twente. His skill has been meh since the time, even now. He failed to reach the first team at Mourinho regime besides Milito, Eto'o, Pandev, and Balotelli. even he created some problematic issues like racism and arrogant attitude in front of Mourinho eyes. Then, Inter didn't buy him permanently at the end of the season and left for Bremen.

I am not saying he was a world beater or he is a beast but he was a very highly rated talent the fact that it did not work out does not make it untrue. Again my argument has been that he s easily the best young striker we had since Balo and you guys dont want him here... How would it make sense to keep a pinamonti or other random youth strikers around if he could not make it?

 

[thatdude]

Cause at 32 he was playing for fucken sion and in his whole career he never made it at a big club.... like how can you argue he was good enough? Talent wise yes but everything else that is needed to be a top athleth he did not have....
Also both santon and balo are arguments in my favour if you are promising enough you ll get playibg time. That does not mean you ll make it
He benched dzeko but the most starts in epl he ever got at city was 17 as in less than half the prem games?
Also ask any city fan who they have more fond memories off balo or dzeko?
Dont get me wrong balo is one of the best u18 players i ve ever seen but he did not reach hia potential despite getting early playing time cause there is a lot more to becoming a wc player than just talent and experiance...

Again where are all these talents that dont get a chance in italy that shine so bright in other places? Remember casadei did chelsea play him or loan him out?

Your original argument was that Balotelli was not good enough for Inter. Which is incorrect. He played for Man City, Milan and Liverpool as well. Now you’re moving the goal posts.

Everyone knew about his attitude issues. Those clubs also knew about them then and they still signed him. Would you say Cassano wasn’t good enough for Inter or Milan?

Regarding examples of players look at Gnonto from our primavera. He had the balls to leave Italy at 18. He would never have gotten an opportunity here, but obviously he was good enough to play well in EPL. Now he’s linked to Everton and Newcastle.

Not to mention someone like Coutinho. And I’m just naming Inter players not players who left Italy in general. That list is much longer. You don’t think Calafiori for example benefited from breaking through in Switzerland?

Also, I’m not saying every kid in an academy should get a chance in the first team. I’m just saying the special players in the academy should get a look. Especially if it’s in a position of need for the team. And not every player needs to be a star. Sometimes a role player is just fine too.

 

[CafeCordoba]

Also, I’m not saying every kid in an academy should get a chance in the first team. I’m just saying the special players in the academy should get a look. Especially if it’s in a position of need for the team. And not every player needs to be a star. Sometimes a role player is just fine too.

I agree with this.

And I continue to trust our coaching staffs of the past several years and their assessments that we haven't had special players in our academy who would have deserved bigger chances than what they already got.

Of course some of them we're sold because of the club's financial situation like Casadei (maybe single instance of such case?), but that's out of coaching staff's decision range.

 

[.h.]

And tbh from the sales I don't think there's any real regret either. Like, does anyone here regret casadei? I slightly regret he didn't get a shot at Inter but in terms of the level he's playing at, so far, there's no regret. I can't speak to talent, but Fabbian has been more impressive so far I think?

 

[thatdude]

As of right now the one that “got away” would be Gnonto. He could legitimately help our team because he’s better than Correa and a different profile than Arnautovic. We miss a support striker currently.

Casadei is an interesting one. He’s one I think we could have done better with giving opportunities earlier. We put him in this weird limbo where he was basically 20 years old with no professional appearances. Then he went to Chelsea, a club with no plans for development of the players they buy. Casadei should have been playing with adults since 17-18 especially given his physicality. Hopefully this is what a B team can help remedy in the future.

 

[.h.]

I don't yet regret Gnonto given his last season, but let's see how this season goes, he's still quite young

 

[Corrode]

As of right now the one that “got away” would be Gnonto. He could legitimately help our team because he’s better than Correa and a different profile than Arnautovic. We miss a support striker currently.

Casadei is an interesting one. He’s one I think we could have done better with giving opportunities earlier. We put him in this weird limbo where he was basically 20 years old with no professional appearances. Then he went to Chelsea, a club with no plans for development of the players they buy. Casadei should have been playing with adults since 17-18 especially given his physicality. Hopefully this is what a B team can help remedy in the future.

swap Gnonto with both Bonucci and Di Gregorio and yeah Marotta co regret both. Gnonto maybe will be something to regret too if a big Italians team aside Inter could sign him.

 

[.h.]

I dunno if di Gregorio is regret yet? Like, we could have brought him back this summer if we really wanted to probably, we instead signed another keeper at a similar age and cost. Don't get me wrong, we only got like 2.5m for him if you factor the sell on fee, that's not great but it seems like we wanted other choices for GK

 

[PHM1605]

I dunno if di Gregorio is regret yet? Like, we could have brought him back this summer if we really wanted to probably, we instead signed another keeper at a similar age and cost. Don't get me wrong, we only got like 2.5m for him if you factor the sell on fee, that's not great but it seems like we wanted other choices for GK

We will regret soon I fear. We can't choose anything until our ownership switch is sorted our, while Juve always have cash and clinched even before season ends.

The more I watch the two, the clearer the quality difference is.

 

[Adriano@10]

Your original argument was that Balotelli was not good enough for Inter. Which is incorrect. He played for Man City, Milan and Liverpool as well. Now you’re moving the goal posts.

Everyone knew about his attitude issues. Those clubs also knew about them then and they still signed him. Would you say Cassano wasn’t good enough for Inter or Milan?

Regarding examples of players look at Gnonto from our primavera. He had the balls to leave Italy at 18. He would never have gotten an opportunity here, but obviously he was good enough to play well in EPL. Now he’s linked to Everton and Newcastle.

Not to mention someone like Coutinho. And I’m just naming Inter players not players who left Italy in general. That list is much longer. You don’t think Calafiori for example benefited from breaking through in Switzerland?

Also, I’m not saying every kid in an academy should get a chance in the first team. I’m just saying the special players in the academy should get a look. Especially if it’s in a position of need for the team. And not every player needs to be a star. Sometimes a role player is just fine too.

What in what world did balo turn out good enough to play at a top club but every top club he was at he was not a starter and every top club got rid of him after what 3 seasons max? He had one very good season at bbilan and he had an exceptional euro but thats it... Do you think he had what it takes to be a starter rotational palyer at a top club but he somehow wanted to play at nice at 26? And yes cassano is in the same category how can a guy be good enough in a top club wen through out his career he had maybe one good season as a starter at a top club? Talent yes they both had more than enough talent to be usefull to inter or any other top club but they lacked the mentality/work ethic or what ever you wanna call it..... I dont see how you can claim otherwise when we can just look at the facts of them not having any significant impact at top clubs.
To be honest gnoto is the strangest case I ve ever seen cause the dude was not even outstanding in zurich....
Again i said cou is probably the only one since the trebble where we should have serious regrets around not being able to developp him here.

Also i m not sure what you think my argument is? I m all for loaning players out....
I brought up balo cause even if you have all the talent in the world a coach who likes you and you get regular playing time you still might end up not good enough for a top club.... Bascally i just wanted to illustrate that simply playing some of those Primavera players even if they are talented does not mean they ll amount to a player good enough to be at Inter.
And i find it hilarious that such ideas come from people who bash some of our lesser players who atm are better than any primavera kid.