2020/2021 Midfielders Rumours Thread

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Nerazzurri_Ninja

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I still want us to invest young in Juan Sforza from Argentina, Samuele Ricci or Davide Frattesi
 

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rfU;1999427 this is not a general rule. You asked why I would chose RDP ahead of Pellegrini said:
Abilities and stats are almost always a general rule in signing a player than so-called fighting spirit right from inception. All these crazy transfer sums and hundreds of millions invested in players are as a result of talents and stats and not fighting spirit, you know that deep down in your mind unless you don't want to admit. Who signs a player only due to his fighting spirit?. Even the best players in football are being judged based on abilities and stats not fighting spirit. What are your reasons for saying de Paul suits conte ball more and is more of a guarantee for success?.

rfU;1999427 Roma and Sassuolo are attack-minded teams. They're not the sort to grind out 1-0 results like Inter. RDP would work for us in that sense. [/QUOTE said:
You are still making the same naïve claim to which I am tired of replying to. Should we sign players only from teams that grind out 1-0 results just because we play the same way too. We might as well haven't signed Hakimi or we shouldn't sign gosens because they are both from teams that are att minded and score a lot of goals, don't grind out 1-0 results.

rfU;1999427 Luxury or burden? You realize if RDP doesn't perform Udinese are in relegation trouble? [/QUOTE said:
And he is not being held responsible for it, right? So that's not a burden. A burden occurs where you are being held responsible for it. Besides, udinese has been avoiding relegation since 3-4 seasons ago when de Paul is not or little known and when he didn't perform half of what he did in the past 2seasons

rfU;1999427 He flopped in Argentina too. So did Bruno Fernandes (various serie a clubs) and KDB (chelsea). What's your point? RDP has been a top 5 midfielder in the league last 2-3 seasons said:
Lol, bruno Fernandes didn't flop in serie a, may be you don't know him well the. In fact the progress in his career says it: From udinese to samp to sporting to man utd.
Kdb didn't flop in Chelsea, rather he was benched and not given playing time because mourinho didn't trust him.
 

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De Paul is more similar to Gagliardini or Vecino before coming to Inter, or Conti, Caldara, Bennacer etc. Which means stars at mid/small teams and never steps up.

Cambiasso/ Sneijder were rejects from big teams. But that's the keyword, BIG teams. Similar cases to a lesser extent are e.g. Theo, Reguilon or Rafinha without injury. They have enough quality to be at those teams at first.

40m for De Paul is a waste of money. 20m maybe his correct price.
 

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Abilities and stats are almost always a general rule in signing a player than so-called fighting spirit right from inception. All these crazy transfer sums and hundreds of millions invested in players are as a result of talents and stats and not fighting spirit, you know that deep down in your mind unless you don't want to admit. Who signs a player only due to his fighting spirit?. Even the best players in football are being judged based on abilities and stats not fighting spirit. What are your reasons for saying de Paul suits conte ball more and is more of a guarantee for success?.



You are still making the same naïve claim to which I am tired of replying to. Should we sign players only from teams that grind out 1-0 results just because we play the same way too. We might as well haven't signed Hakimi or we shouldn't sign gosens because they are both from teams that are att minded and score a lot of goals, don't grind out 1-0 results.



And he is not being held responsible for it, right? So that's not a burden. A burden occurs where you are being held responsible for it. Besides, udinese has been avoiding relegation since 3-4 seasons ago when de Paul is not or little known and when he didn't perform half of what he did in the past 2seasons



Lol, bruno Fernandes didn't flop in serie a, may be you don't know him well the. In fact the progress in his career says it: From udinese to samp to sporting to man utd.
Kdb didn't flop in Chelsea, rather he was benched and not given playing time because mourinho didn't trust him.

Bro, why is your quotes so weird. Makes it really hard to read your posts.
 

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What does Vucinic have to do with the discussion? Vucinic was just a decent player while Milito was the second top scorer after Ibra in 2009.

Similarly RDP is one of the best midfielders in the league 2 years running. What's your concern? Where is he lacking?

And for the record I'm not advocating spending 40M on RDP. If he's only available for anything higher than 30M I wouldn't go for it.

De Paul is more similar to Gagliardini or Vecino before coming to Inter, or Conti, Caldara, Bennacer etc. Which means stars at mid/small teams and never steps up.
At one point were Vecino or G5 considered one of the best mids in the league? BTW I rate Bennacer highly. A boss in midfield just injury prone.

Cambiasso/ Sneijder were rejects from big teams. But that's the keyword, BIG teams. Similar cases to a lesser extent are e.g. Theo, Reguilon or Rafinha without injury. They have enough quality to be at those teams at first.
presumed quality. PSG took that risk on Icardi and see how that turned out. There's no formula for this, you can unearth quality (Chelsea keeper, Mendy) from anywhere. Conversely we can bring in 9G or Hernanes from another "BIG" club and it turns out to be a disaster.

What are your reasons for saying de Paul suits conte ball more and is more of a guarantee for success?.
Play style, serie a experience and leadership qualities. In what areas do you think he lacking? In what areas is Pellegrini vastly better?

You are still making the same naïve claim to which I am tired of replying to. Should we sign players only from teams that grind out 1-0 results just because we play the same way too. We might as well haven't signed Hakimi or we shouldn't sign gosens because they are both from teams that are att minded and score a lot of goals, don't grind out 1-0 results.
It's a matter of availability and also management. Eriksen wasn't a Conte-type player for example, neither was Fabregas but he had the fortitude to take on Conte's demands. Hakimi Conte felt he could work on and improve. RDP is for sure a ready-made Conte player. Just plug and play.

Lol, bruno Fernandes didn't flop in serie a, may be you don't know him well the. In fact the progress in his career says it: From udinese to samp to sporting to man utd.
Kdb didn't flop in Chelsea, rather he was benched and not given playing time because mourinho didn't trust him.
True. Point is they improved. And so has RDP. We're talking 5 years ago by the way. What relevance does it have to today?
 

varmin

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Sensi came from Sassuolo.
Skriniar came from Sampdoria.
Barella came from Cagliari.

De Paul is quality player but I don't see anybody spending 40mln for him. I think Udinese are willing to sell, so the price is not fixed. Anyway, I don't know why you even discussed it. We are broke and cannot offer even 10 mln for him, most probably.
I'd troll them with Dalbert + Vecino + 5mln bid :troll:
 

PHM1605

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Sensi came from Sassuolo.
Skriniar came from Sampdoria.
Barella came from Cagliari.

De Paul is quality player but I don't see anybody spending 40mln for him. I think Udinese are willing to sell, so the price is not fixed. Anyway, I don't know why you even discussed it. We are broke and cannot offer even 10 mln for him, most probably.
I'd troll them with Dalbert + Vecino + 5mln bid :troll:
Skriniar and Barella came to us when they were 22. Tons of time to develop.

De Paul is now 27. He will stay as he is or may be a bit better, but don't expect him to take a big leap. His mistake for staying at that relegation team too long. Same as Berardi, or soon, Alberto or SMS.

Sensi is exactly proving my point. He showed glimpse of talents for three matches here, then now becoming mediocre af.

There are tons of other players whom I am too lazy to write down. We usually got "stars" from midtable teams TOO LATE. Candreva, Hernanes, Perisic, Nainggolan adding to the pathetic list. And for the counterexample, Milito was the only rare case. Don't step again on that deep hole.
 

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Play style, serie a experience and leadership qualities. In what areas do you think he lacking? In what areas is Pellegrini vastly better?

Play style? Where and how? I've watched both of them play and from what I saw Pellegrini suits conte ball more than de Paul. If you've watched de Paul clearly then you'll see that he is more of a playmaker, that's his biggest strength. He starts most of his plays from deep, when tight-marked or udinese are pressed down their half, he dribbles the first man or beats the press then surges forward with the ball, most of his goals and assists came this way. He hardly gets into the box but scores from outside 18, assists from long passes, crosses or set pieces. He is better outside the box and from deep, you hardly see him inside the opposition box. Based on his style, I could easily say his att style resembles that of eriksen's minus the creativity. Aside from that, given the way he plays, de Paul will better if he has free will in att, no given pattern he has to stick with, and we all know that this is a great deviation from Conte's style. Conte prefers a dynamic midfielder, one with excellent link up play with the 2 attackers, one that makes runs into the opposition box and score, this why barella stands out. The b2b type. Pellegrini despite having the playmaking abilities, also carries those running abilities, you see him a lot in the opposition box 18, most of his goals this season are in there, links up excellently with the attackers. If you don't know, this is why he was moved into one of the SS behind the attacker this season, he also plays a lot as the Amf if Fonseca switches to 4231.
Talking of experience, this matters little. Conte went with experience this past summer transfer and we saw how it failed miserably. Barella, sensi, lautaro, bastoni and hakimi don't have experience and now 4 of them constitute the backbone of the team. Leadership qualities matters little for what we are looking for and almost everyone here will agree on that.
Pellegrini is better in talent, vastly higher ceiling, very much younger and better resale value. After this criterion, I don't know what else is needed to judge between players.



It's a matter of availability and also management. Eriksen wasn't a Conte-type player for example, neither was Fabregas but he had the fortitude to take on Conte's demands. Hakimi Conte felt he could work on and improve. RDP is for sure a ready-made Conte player. Just plug and play.

Grinding out 1-0 results doesn't means readiness, besides, what makes you so sure we will keep playing that next season?. Those hard fought 1-0 win are temporary tactics meant to take the results only, minimise the risks and win the league. We were not playing that way before then and last season, also we immediately scored 9 goals in the next 3matches after we secured the league.
And how does de Paul becomes a ready made player for conte system?, still no tangible reason from you.

- - - Updated - - -

What relevance does it have to today?

The past has a lot of relevance for the future. It tells you lot. De Paul failed in Valencia probably due to higher expectations, more qualitative league and bigger talents there, but now successful in a 12-16 positioned team where there's low pressure and not much talent, after 2-3years
 

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Skriniar and Barella came to us when they were 22. Tons of time to develop.

De Paul is now 27. He will stay as he is or may be a bit better, but don't expect him to take a big leap. His mistake for staying at that relegation team too long. Same as Berardi, or soon, Alberto or SMS.

Sensi is exactly proving my point. He showed glimpse of talents for three matches here, then now becoming mediocre af.

There are tons of other players whom I am too lazy to write down. We usually got "stars" from midtable teams TOO LATE. Candreva, Hernanes, Perisic, Nainggolan adding to the pathetic list. And for the counterexample, Milito was the only rare case. Don't step again on that deep hole.

Milito was 30 years old when he came at Inter. Kondogbia and JM were young. What is your point really? If you don't like De Paul give some real arguments because these comparisons are stupid. At least for me. "We should not buy De Paul, because he is 27 and is playing for middle table club".WTF?!
 

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Milito was 30 years old when he came at Inter. Kondogbia and JM were young. What is your point really? If you don't like De Paul give some real arguments because these comparisons are stupid. At least for me. "We should not buy De Paul, because he is 27 and is playing for middle table club".WTF?!
No, it sounds stupid because you cut the most important thing out of the context. De Paul is too overpriced in such conditions. Udinese is asking, what, 40-50m for him?!? We can at best negotiate it down to 30m and it is still daylight robbed.

And again, don't cut things to fit your narrative. I say NOT YOUNG and EXPENSIVE and MIDTABLE is MORE LIKELY to fail than paying it off. I never say buying young from farmers league will succeed.

I quote here again my post, what will make me welcome De Paul. Just 3 posts above:

40m for De Paul is a waste of money. 20m maybe his correct price.
 

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10 and 20M prices are now 40 and 50, transfers have been inflated for a while now. Covid def can change that but i still dont see him leaving for less than 20-30M
 

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this ladinetti shit is coming up again

i mean its crazy, we're swapping some useless kid (playing Serie C atm aged 20) for Nainggolan just so we can amortise him over 4 seasons rather than 1.

surely they must have some kids of actual worth we could swap for. Bring in Carboni and Zappa for example.
 

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It's ridiculous if we can't get anything tangible from Cagliari for Nainggolan. He has big salary but he's gonna spread that over multiple years and he's their starting player, a key player for the team ffs!
 

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this ladinetti shit is coming up again

i mean its crazy, we're swapping some useless kid (playing Serie C atm aged 20) for Nainggolan just so we can amortise him over 4 seasons rather than 1.

surely they must have some kids of actual worth we could swap for. Bring in Carboni and Zappa for example.

Sure they do but they don't want to offer anything valuable to you because they know they can get him for free and eventually they will. You're desperate to offload his wages and they know it.
 

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No, it sounds stupid because you cut the most important thing out of the context. De Paul is too overpriced in such conditions. Udinese is asking, what, 40-50m for him?!? We can at best negotiate it down to 30m and it is still daylight robbed.

And again, don't cut things to fit your narrative. I say NOT YOUNG and EXPENSIVE and MIDTABLE is MORE LIKELY to fail than paying it off. I never say buying young from farmers league will succeed.

I quote here again my post, what will make me welcome De Paul. Just 3 posts above:


40 mln price tag is a reasonable argument and I agree here, but I think that 30mln is fair price for De Paul.
But I'm still not convinced by all of this age-potential-price thing. Again, JM and Kondogbia came young with potential but they didn't have the right mentality to succeed in a big club. Palacio was old and absolutely completed player when Inter got him, but he was a beast for 2 seasons. So, for me the potential and the age are not the most important factors but more are the mentality and the assessment has the player passed his peak or not. Which is not so easy task.
Back to De Paul- imo he has the right mentality to succeed here and he is around his peak, hence I'd buy him for 30mln. Everything above is overpriced in my eyes.
 

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Sure they do but they don't want to offer anything valuable to you because they know they can get him for free and eventually they will. You're desperate to offload his wages and they know it.

aye, but if it comes to that, I'd actually rather him come back for a season, considering the likely sales of Vecino, Vidal, etc this window. Rather than just amortising some shit kid over 4 years.

Or a few more kids from Cagliari who might actually have potential of making it.
 

rfU

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Conte prefers a dynamic midfielder, one with excellent link up play with the 2 attackers, one that makes runs into the opposition box and score, this why barella stands out. The b2b type.
I don't know why everyone thinks this of Conte, like he never fielded Fabregas, Pogba, Sensi, his favorite Parolo, etc. in any case RDP is highly versatile, capable of playing in various roles in midfield and attack, as a No 8, No 10, as a SS or on the wing.

Pellegrini despite having the playmaking abilities, also carries those running abilities, you see him a lot in the opposition box 18, most of his goals this season are in there, links up excellently with the attackers.
DePaul does too, currently averaging the highest number of key passes per game.

Talking of experience, this matters little. Conte went with experience this past summer transfer and we saw how it failed miserably. Barella, sensi, lautaro, bastoni and hakimi don't have experience and now 4 of them constitute the backbone of the team.
By serie a expereince I mean that he knows/understands the italian league and an adjustment period won't be necessary.

Leadership qualities matters little for what we are looking for and almost everyone here will agree on that.
This squad sucks in dealing with big pressure moments. I'm certain almost everyone here will agree on that. Not that RDP is the final solution but he is a step in the right direction.

Pellegrini is better in talent, vastly higher ceiling, very much younger and better resale value.
I don't dispute any of this. But thoughts on his injury history?

I also don't like that he is rejecting big money moves in Italy or abroad to stay with Roma and essentially go a career not competing for important trophies. We don't want players who lack ambition or don't want to be challenged career wise.

Grinding out 1-0 results doesn't means readiness, besides, what makes you so sure we will keep playing that next season?. Those hard fought 1-0 win are temporary tactics meant to take the results only, minimise the risks and win the league. We were not playing that way before then and last season, also we immediately scored 9 goals in the next 3matches after we secured the league.
Italian coaches are results orientated, only a few break the norm and even fewer stay employed long enough. Conte may tweak here and there but the concept will remain the same: play to win. In anycase, RDP is adaptable, from possession style with Argentina to ultra-defensive with Udinese.

And how does de Paul becomes a ready made player for conte system?, still no tangible reason from you.
hard working, durable, excellent passing and vision, can literally play anywhere under all conditions and play styles.

The past has a lot of relevance for the future. It tells you lot. De Paul failed in Valencia probably due to higher expectations, more qualitative league and bigger talents there, but now successful in a 12-16 positioned team where there's low pressure and not much talent, after 2-3years

I suggest you read up on his time at Valencia: https://www.espn.com/soccer/blog/sc...-to-be-given-second-chance-under-gary-neville

Half our core treble winning team flopped in la liga for various reason, even players like Cancelo and Rafinha, and RDP was younger and more inexperienced than all, transferred in in the midst of managerial change, etc To me it has zero relevance. What matters is his ability and mindset.
 
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