Inter's Financial Situation

[CafeCordoba]

Moved a post more related to Suning to its own thread.

 

[CafeCordoba]

SportsMediaset reports that InterSPAC is targeting like 30-40% ownership by collecting 300m€. Quite ambitious to say the least.

 

[CafeCordoba]

Also I'm curious how Inter or Zhangs would make it work with the stadium project. Fans own 40% of Inter. Let's say Suning owns 60% (LionRock bought out).

Stadium is built with Suning's money as fan collective don't have extra money to that of course (well, do Suning have either?). For the sake of the argument, let's say Suning builds the stadium. They are probably going to have a separate company who owns the stadium and then they funnel the money from the stadium company to the club. But how is that fair then as the 40% of Inter do not bring any money in?

Or would it go that fan collective's share portion is diluted from 40% to something much lower in accordance to the stadium's value? So fan collective give up big part of their share-% so that stadium can be Inter's?

 

[.h.]

its completely impractical and stupid.

Even if the thing was to take 40% of the club. for things like stadium funding, all suning need to do is raise equity and dilute the fan holdings.


It's just never going to happen. If we were publicly listed there might be a chance, by who is going to throw 400m into a bottomless pit with no control.

This is just stupid.

 

[compile]

Also I'm curious how Inter or Zhangs would make it work with the stadium project. Fans own 40% of Inter. Let's say Suning owns 60% (LionRock bought out).

Stadium is built with Suning's money as fan collective don't have extra money to that of course (well, do Suning have either?). For the sake of the argument, let's say Suning builds the stadium. They are probably going to have a separate company who owns the stadium and then they funnel the money from the stadium company to the club. But how is that fair then as the 40% of Inter do not bring any money in?

Or would it go that fan collective's share portion is diluted from 40% to something much lower in accordance to the stadium's value? So fan collective give up big part of their share-% so that stadium can be Inter's?

At this paoint a stadium will never be built as there is no money.

A new stadium is the least of their concerns right now.

 

[CafeCordoba]

its completely impractical and stupid.

Even if the thing was to take 40% of the club. for things like stadium funding, all suning need to do is raise equity and dilute the fan holdings.


It's just never going to happen. If we were publicly listed there might be a chance, by who is going to throw 400m into a bottomless pit with no control.

This is just stupid.

But it would be just 500-1000 euros for each fan to throw into a bottomless pit.

I'm not even sure if I'd do it if it was available globally. At least it wouldn't be a definite no at this point from me.

 

[.h.]

this sort of initiative never goes anywhere, though.

when united got taken over by the glazers, a similar united thing kicked off IIRC - they set up FC United instead, and 4000 people pledged a total of about £100k. That's one of the biggest clubs in the world. Now I appreciate that setting up FC Inter of Milan isnt the same as buying out Internazionale, but still, you get the point. These things, historically, dont get anywhere near the traction.

You need 1 million fans to pledge 1000 euros each to buy out the club. Even at 40%, that's 400k fans pledging 1000 euros. I bet we dont even get 100m euros pledged on this initiative. Hell, if we pass 10m euros pledged, I'll pledge 500 euros myself.


This sort of thing, sadly, will never amount to anything. It's just noise.

Bear in mind United is now a listed football club. I dont know what the free float is (in terms of voting rights, I think glazers hold different category of shares?), but still, they're a publicly listed company, if fans wanted to make a serious move they could at least try to.



also wtf are my 25k thanks gone

 

[Candreva Crosses]

Do you know how much fun I can have with 500-1000 euros?

 

[.h.]

thats the point. When push comes to shove and requires digging into your wallet, maybe if you're lucky .5% of Inter fans will put money where their mouth is

 

[Candreva Crosses]

thats the point. When push comes to shove and requires digging into your wallet, maybe if you're lucky .5% of Inter fans will put money where their mouth is

Meh, you say that like Inter fans have been saying they are ready to put money in. If we were Bayern then sure I'd pay it but for Inter in this condition? I rather burn the money to keep the house warm during winter.

 

[.h.]

just trying tomanage expectations
1 - a fan ownewd club would be a disaster
2 - we're never even going to come close to being able to afford it

 

[brehme1989]

just trying tomanage expectations
1 - a fan ownewd club would be a disaster
2 - we're never even going to come close to being able to afford it

Who's we?
You do realize that the entire concept is to bring a large group of people together so that someone who can afford to spend 100-200m a year feels security and the idea is to have a nucleus which would allow these figures to be recycled whenever necessary, for economic or management reasons?

 

[.h.]

We = collective for inter fans.

Yeah, and the concept never works. I appreciate its fine for clubs that have *always been* fan owned, but I cant think of any major club that was previously not fan owned and recently (last 20-30 years?) became fan owned. Let alone was a success, but actually even happened. Efforts to do this sort of things, off the top of my head, with Leeds, Manchester United, etc, have all flopped.

Checking here quickly, probably the biggest one is Portsmouth? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fan-owned_sports_teams

Interestingly, even from a minority owned perspective, no big clubs have minority fan ownerships.




Bear in mind, as well:
1 - Suning have shown no indications of wanting to sell, so even if we raise a bunch of money, there's no guarantee they'll sell any inter vessel a stake in the club
2 - It's not one-off funding. You'd continually need to recapitalise (or decrease shareholding).


Spending 1000 euros to then be obliged to spend another 50-100 euros a year doesnt sound like much fun to me.



Looking over the list, there were protest clubs (AFC Liverpool) - founded with 1000 supporters. FC United of Manchester - founded with 4000 supporters. I appreciate these things arent analogous to a vehicle looknig to buy out the club in aggregate, but it is a useful indication of the sort of support you'd get - and the support is a long way off the scale needed to make any reasonable buy out of Inter (even in minority). Unless you're expecting members to front up 10k, 100k euros each.

 

[CafeCordoba]

Yeah it might be totally unrealistic. I guess we will find out pretty soon, what kind of results the questionnaire will give them. They need A LOT of regular fans and in addition many high-rollers for sure to throw in some fuck-you money.

Issue is indeed anyway the constant recapitalization need. Lots of debts to be paid. Other alternative to that is is the club will truly become self-financing which means we aren't competing at the top any time soon.

 

[.h.]

yeah. we'll see, but if this does even get into the place where it can make a realistic bid to Inter/Suning, it'd basically be unprecedented in modern football. And I'd stress, clubs like United, Liverpool, etc, have been in this sort of position before. I know they're clubs that are notionally worth a lot more, but I'd still argue would have been more likely to succeed.

 

[TheNetworkZ]

Didn't the initial report suggest that they want to pool a bunch of celebrities and other big names into raising most of the money? That would require less outside crowd-funding, thus making it a little more likely I think?

Regardless I agree with you browha, I can't see this happening tbh.

 

[.h.]

yep, if theres one thing you're gonn get out of a bunch of celebs, its 400mil

they'll put in token sums of money. Probably more than the average person, but also remember none of this (most likely) will actually be paid unless a certain target is hit, etc. If they put in, say, 250k each, its still meaningless in the scheme of things unless we get hundreds of thousands of supporters contributing 1k euros each.

And all that to buy a minority share in a loss making company you'd be better off buying out Roma and then running it the way you want and rebranding it (market cap 280m)

 

[brehme1989]

The idea is to make guys like the Moratti, Provera, Benetton, Armani and others to chip in the big money. Not necessarily them, but people like them. Someone like Ferrero (Milanista) wouldn't want to buy Milan, but he'd probably be willing to participate monetarily in a project that provides some stability and allows the club to be run by its fans. I'm pretty confident that if this works out well in terms of how it is presented and what they want to accomplish, it can succeed.

The group is: Giuseppe Bergomi, Enrico Bertolino, Andrea Bocelli, Stefano Boeri, Paolo Bonolis, Alessandro Cattelan, Claudio Cecchetto, Valerio De Molli, Gianfelice Facchetti, Fabio Fognini, Massimo Galli, Peter Gomez, Tommaso Labate, Giancarlo Leone, Gad Lerner, Luciano Ligabue, Maurizio Mannoni, Enrico Mentana, Pietro Modiano, Michele Mozzati, Mario Nava, Roberto Nicastro, Enrico Pazzali, Max Pezzali, Mariangela Pira, Antonio Polito, Giacomo Poretti, Gianni Riotta, Enrico Ruggeri, Gabriele Salvatores, Sergio Scalpelli, Pietro Senaldi, Michele Serra, Beppe Severgnini, Giovanni Storti, Marco Tarquinio, Flavio Valeri, Roberto Vecchioni, Antonio Versace, Luigi Vignali.

You'll need to appeal to guys like Valentino Rossi as well, who are popular and also have enough wealth to not care enough.


The list isn't comprised of people who can afford to chip in more than 10,000 or something. Some can, and definitely more, but most cannot. Add some 500,000 people from all over the world who can chip in 100 euros a year [or 5,000,000 with 10e, or 250,000 with 200 euros, or 50,000 with 1,000e ... whatever figure you find realistic], plus another 20-30-50m that will be collected by businessmen and you have an big annual injection. You cannot sell TV rights, but you definitely can find ways to fund the club. They can just convert that membership thing into something that can be realized into something and you'll have a % of fan ownership.

This would be ideal but the success possibility is too low mostly because of the skepticism and the accustomed nature of football fans of having sugar daddies treat their clubs as their playthings.

This isn't calling some Milanese based fans to spend more, you say you support Inter and you're from anywhere in the world and your only input is to spend money on traveling and accommodation once every 1-5-10 years to watch one game or buy one jersey, do this instead...

 

[.h.]

Oh I get the objective, its just never gonna happen. I bet you couldnt even get 500,000 fans to pledge 1 euro ecah let alaone 100 or 1000, tbh.

I look forward to seeing how many people in that group commit what sort of money, but I'dd be surprised if you even break 10m euros from that community, to be honest.

Like I said, you look at United, Liverpool, etc, efforts. They fall way, way short of anything really meaningful.

You might get 5-10 maybe at a push 15/20k fans who will contribute towards this. It'll fall way below even 10% of Inter's market cap (perceived), and thats before even talking about trying to negotiate with Suning.



Out of curiosity, you've said so many times you dont support this Inter because of various reasons, do YOU plan on contributing? I appreciate some of the dynamics have changed (e.g. no more Conte now), but I'm still curious.


As for me, it depends on what the detailed proposal is, I wouldnt rule out contributing if we start getting to meaningful sums of money where we can actually make a real impact/take over a decent proportion, but then its a question of investment in Inter, like any other investment in a company - is spending 500 euros on Inter likely to generate a better return than, say, 500 euros on Microsoft or Amazon.

 

[brehme1989]

There's no reason to look at either Manchester United or Liverpool here.

Look at Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern, Dortmund, Benfica, Porto, Flamengo, Ajax etc. Half of these teams don't have the global appeal or prestige of Inter.