New Stadium

Which proposed stadium project do you prefer?


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Capo

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I can guarantee we have just a mere fraction of the bureaucracy that exists in Italy, you just don’t see remotely the same obstacles caused by bureaucracy here, even Germany is bureaucratic nightmare in comparison, it’s one of the easiest places to start up a company for example. Sure in some cases it causes some delays but we aren’t talking a complete halt for decades or to extend where infrastructure collapses. One of the biggest issues in italy and obstacles for financial growth currently is bureaucracy, the stadiums not being built is a prime example of the bureaucracy issues existing in Italy.

The eco is in fact the European legislation causing it, it is rarely also causing any serious delays and obstacles.

I can guarantee it’s much easier and faster to build something in Denmark then in Italy. Denmark is one of the least bureaucratic countries not just in Europe but in the world.. had Italy same level we would be playing on that new stadium by now and it probably would have been several years old.

Having lived other places, the amount of bureaucracy here is manageable. Everywhere else Ive been it tenfold as bad if not more

I really dont understand how or why the levels of the Italian Government to hold back investment.

It's a mistake they won't revitalize San Siro to a new modern Stadium for both clubs that are followed worldwide. It's what makes the Milan Derby have another point of difference. They missed a step adding boutique stores, restaurants, and even a huge sporting Museum for both clubs, with Inter Blue on the left and Milan Red on the Right, showing the importance of Italian football. Another reason we keep falling behind we just cant get out of our own way.
 

Capo

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This nationality thing is a hilarious circular debate that will never have a conclusion.

Having said that, I stand on the AD
Rossi side of the circle because I'm an Irish/English/German/Dutch immigrant who was born in Australia.

Same but Italian - And not being "Anglo-Saxon" I am reminded I am Italian. And sit squarely on the opposite side of the fence.
 

Gal

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I really dont understand how or why the levels of the Italian Government to hold back investment.

It's a mistake they won't revitalize San Siro to a new modern Stadium for both clubs that are followed worldwide. It's what makes the Milan Derby have another point of difference. They missed a step adding boutique stores, restaurants, and even a huge sporting Museum for both clubs, with Inter Blue on the left and Milan Red on the Right, showing the importance of Italian football. Another reason we keep falling behind we just cant get out of our own way.

It’s a cultural, historical and economic thing those conditions just leads to differences in bureaucracy in Italy it lead to what we see today. Such thing doesn’t evolve without reason, the alternative to it is a trust based system, but to have that requires low level of corruption, to have low level of that requires liveable wages and not at least moral. That you can drop your wallet on the street and it would be handed over to the police without anything missing, that again requires trust in the law enforcement, that you can leave your mac at a cafe outside for an hour and still would be untouched, without that sort of trust in society you can’t have low level bureaucracy.

Italy is many things but it’s not really a trustful society, this is more than underlined by several reports on the matter. What happens when you have no trust, rigid bureaucracy, it’s a slippery slope, even in my country we seen decline in trust the result expanded bureaucracy, more control, more rigid inflexible legislation that lack individual trust in the moral and competence of all from citizens, companies to state employees.

When you end in such place yes it will eventually put so many obstacles in place that even infrastructure projects are put to a halt, because it turn into a jungle of a legislation.

Obviously more complex than that, but trust is a key ingredient.
 

Forzanerazzurri

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It’s a cultural, historical and economic thing those conditions just leads to differences in bureaucracy in Italy it lead to what we see today. Such thing doesn’t evolve without reason, the alternative to it is a trust based system, but to have that requires low level of corruption, to have low level of that requires liveable wages and not at least moral. That you can drop your wallet on the street and it would be handed over to the police without anything missing, that again requires trust in the law enforcement, that you can leave your mac at a cafe outside for an hour and still would be untouched, without that sort of trust in society you can’t have low level bureaucracy.

Italy is many things but it’s not really a trustful society, this is more than underlined by several reports on the matter. What happens when you have no trust, rigid bureaucracy, it’s a slippery slope, even in my country we seen decline in trust the result expanded bureaucracy, more control, more rigid inflexible legislation that lack individual trust in the moral and competence of all from citizens, companies to state employees.

When you end in such place yes it will eventually put so many obstacles in place that even infrastructure projects are put to a halt, because it turn into a jungle of a legislation.

Obviously more complex than that, but trust is a key ingredient.
Yes and you are describing the entire Mediterranean there. You are also seeing this increasingly in traditionally high trust societies like Canada and Scandinavia as mass third world immigration destroys social cohesion and trust. This isn't a uniquely Italian phenomenon.
 

CafeCordoba

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Council is trying a last ditch renovation plan to convince Milan & Inter to stay.

Interesting what would be the proposal.

I think we're seeing the issues with Meazza right now when now in this two week break when there are no games there, they gonna change the grass in the stadium. That needs to be done every season and it's still so bad during the winter / late autumn times before they change it. Because the grass doesn't simply grow well enough there because of the sunlight issue.

So really interesting to see what's this promised renovation plan is gonna be. Just more box seats ain't gonna cut it, or shouldn't. It needs to be massively modernized and I don't know if they have the money (political will / votes) do that in the end. Would love that to happens so we would keep our loved Meazza but I don't see it happening.

Though, I can see Inter biting that one, since we might have bigger issues with financing a new stadium project but then again, maybe it's not so grim. Let's see.
 

NimAraya

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So finally our new stadium project begins. :yao:
 

pier

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The new edition of the Money League was published, the ranking created by Deloitte that puts in order the 30 European football clubs with the highest revenues regarding the 2022/23 season. A ranking – which takes into account only the characteristic revenues (not capital gains, for example) – which sees Real Madrid in first place.
Italian football still shows a certain distance from the top European clubs, with Juventus, Milan and Inter present in the top 20, but all out of the top ten places. The Premier League dominates the scene, with six clubs present in the top ten places, but even within the English football ecosystem you can see a particularly significant figure.

Tottenham Hotspur became the richest club in London. In terms of characteristic revenues, the Spurs were ahead of Chelsea (9th) and Arsenal (10th) in the 2022/23 season, taking advantage of the boost from the new stadium. Built in 2019, the facility is the flagship of the club owned by Joe Lewis and is paying off economically.
The $631 million in revenues made by Spurs last season is the highest figure in the last five seasons. A push that comes in particular from the revenues from matchdays (135 million euros), as well as from the commercial sector (261 million euros). In short, Tottenham’s new home pushed the club upwards, making it the fourth economic force of the Premier League (behind United, City and Liverpool).
If we narrow the field to the only revenues from matchday, it is interesting to note that even fewer companies are able to overtake Tottenham (which overall is eighth in the Money League). The London club ranks fourth for stadium revenues, behind only real giants, which have always made the stadium sector their strength:
  1. Barcelona – €166 million
  2. PSG – €153 million
  3. Manchester United – €151 million
  4. Tottenham Hotspur – €135 million
  5. Real Madrid – €122 million
  6. Bayern Munich – €12 million
  7. Arsenal – €118 million
  8. Liverpool – 103 million euros
  9. Inter – 90 million euros
  10. Chelsea – 88 million euros
  11. Manchester City – €83 million
  12. Milan – 79 million euros
  13. Borussia Dortmund – €75 million
  14. Marseille – 64 million euros
  15. Atletico Madrid – 60 million euros
  16. Juventus – 57 million euros
  17. Eintracht Frankfurt – €54 million
  18. West Ham – €47 million
  19. Naples – 44 million euros
  20. Newcastle – €44 million
The Spurs are thus at the foot of the podium, for a figure on matchday revenues that – looking at the Italians – exceeds that of Inter by 45 million, by 56 million that of Milan and registers a figure more than double compared to Juventus (which, however, has a structure with a significantly lower capacity) and triple compared to Napoli.
Numbers that explain well the will of Inter and Milan to equip itself with cutting-edge facilities within the next few years. The two Milan clubs are already at the top in Serie A for stadium revenues, which is why a new “house” would only push these results up. In the project for the new San Siro, the clubs had estimated 120 million euros in incremental revenues, a figure that – if combined with the official data – could lead them to the back of the leading companies on the continent.

 

forzainter257

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We are not gonna see our own stadium in this century, are we
 

Jnr

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Mayor Sala.

“It is clear that as mayor of Milano I would do nothing to oppose the hypothesis that the teams build a new stadium outside Milano. This does not mean that I cannot reason with the fact that we must do everything to ensure that the teams remain in Milano; there are some reasons, such as local police support for matches.

Clubs in Italy are not capitalized. It remains clear, given an investment of 900 million far from Milano, having the opportunity to work on San Siro, why not do it?!

Inter express an interest in Rozzano, but no demonstrative actions have been made. Milan's situation is different. The mayor of San Donato informed us of AC Milan's presentation of an application for a new proprietary stadium in the San Donato area. The municipality of San Donato has issued a council resolution for the San Francesco area.

The last formal conversation with the clubs among us dates back to September 2023. We had asked them to communicate their intentions on the 2019 proposal. The teams responded separately, even with slightly different accents, underlining understandable notes, such as the opinion of the superintendence on the constraint of the second ring.

In March there will be the outcome of the appeal we presented for the opinion of the superintendence. We believe that, unless the TAR decides otherwise, the constraint on the second ring of San Siro can be considered a certainty. At this point the teams must be in a position to respond to the September letter. We must clarify to Milan - and for information to Inter - whether the request from the municipality of San Donato is to be understood as a renunciation of the 2019 Siro project.

The main road for us becomes that of valorising San Siro. This is why it is important today to evaluate projects such as the one presented today with the hope that this will revive the interest of the clubs or just one for San Siro.

The cost of San Siro for the municipality and for the Milanese is around 100 million euros. If there were an interest from the clubs or just one, we would be open to solutions: the first hypothesis is that we carry out the works, the second hypothesis is that we could participate in the works with a partnership, the third (the most sensible) hypothesis is to cede the stadium in surface rights; we consider it the most interesting because the capitalization of the stadium is important for the clubs and because, with the works managed by a private individual, the redevelopment could be quicker.

The asset value of 100 million does not mean that the clubs have to give us 100 million. We could partially ask that it could also be used for a public function in some cases to lower the price, but the amount would be much more limited than what the two clubs pay today.

If there was the possibility for the clubs to invest in the neighboring neighborhood it would be much more convenient for us.

There are many common sense reasons to think that the San Siro option is not the main option, but this presentation of San Siro is very important."

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So now the city is opening up about handling the Meazza to the club(s) . If, theoretically we'll stay, renovating the inside , Premium quality boxes in 360○ between 1st and 2nd ring with restaurants & VIP areas and completely transform the outside , build green areas and parks with shops. SanSiro would come to life again. Obv the pitch problems would still remain as there's not enough sunlight coming in for the grass, but maybe there will be a solution for that too.
 

crzdcolombian

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took them what 10 years... to eb like o crap the teams are leaving lets play ball
 

CafeCordoba

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Here's a twitter thread explaining it a bit further


Apparently the proposal includes some sort of higher tech solution for the grass so that it could be possible to change it more often. Not sure about this. In general I would like to stay at Meazza because of the history (you really need to visit the place to understand), but it needs to be financially viable and the grass issue needs to be resolved one way or another. It's not acceptable the grass is fucking shit 70% of the season.
 

crzdcolombian

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so are they willing to sell us the stadium and then finance it for us?

or are they saying hey lets get a big company to buy the stadium do the updates then rent it to Milan and Inter?
 

IL Fenomeno

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Here's a twitter thread explaining it a bit further


Apparently the proposal includes some sort of higher tech solution for the grass so that it could be possible to change it more often. Not sure about this. In general I would like to stay at Meazza because of the history (you really need to visit the place to understand), but it needs to be financially viable and the grass issue needs to be resolved one way or another. It's not acceptable the grass is fucking shit 70% of the season.
It's not only about the grass. We get no naming rights by not owning the stadium. For instance Barca sold their naming rights for 300M, Bayern more than 100M.

Also we can't rent it out in summer for example and not make money out of this.
Also no VIP area which woule skyrocket the ticket revenue
 

Capo

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Fucking idiots - for the last three years the council blocked every submission. Now that the clubs have a very real prospect of walking away, they only now want to join in a partnership.

If Milan walks, Inter should walk too, and if they dont they should screw the government to get the very best deal to stay.

It really is a shame both Inter and Milan wont share a home, like they have done for the last 100 years +
 

Puma

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Neither club sent representatives to the presentation. Apparently, they will catch up with Sala at a later date.

It is pretty shit that the Mayor and Municipality are only now trying to seemingly take steps to keep both teams within the city.
 

Puma

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Regardless of the proposal, I do not think that renovating is a good idea. Despite the history, the Meazza is an old concrete jungle. And only focusing on the grass, as if everything else at the stadium is great is just wrong.

A purpose built, state of the art, new and modern stadium is the answer.
 

crzdcolombian

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Regardless of the proposal, I do not think that renovating is a good idea. Despite the history, the Meazza is an old concrete jungle. And only focusing on the grass, as if everything else at the stadium is great is just wrong.

A purpose built, state of the art, new and modern stadium is the answer.

I don't know.... Yankee stadium and the NY Giants stadiums that are new "state of the art" look and feel exactly like the old ones they bulldozed other than the Jumbo tron is bigger and the dining area is inside and not outside which is nice.... but not worth 500m.

The Boston Red Sox stadium is like 100+ years old as well they don't modern updates as no place else in Boston to put the team. They just modernized it where they could. The seats fking suck tho.... people 100 years ago must have been 5'2 and 100 pounds.

They were going to move outside the City and the train line. To where the New England Patriots play (it's fking far !!! and you need a car) no easy way to get to it and it sucks to get there and to leave. I use to live in Boston and it was faster to drive to Giants stadium than it was to get to Gillette for a game. So leaving the city and infrusture isn't always the best
 
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