The Suning Commerce Group

.h.

Part time Lazarus
La Grande Inter
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Messages
29,088
Likes
7,082
Favorite Player
Inter1-0Wanda
Old username
browha
Forum Supporter
10 years of FIF
with the new FFP regulations, I would say theres extremely little chance of that. Its impossible to rule anything out categorically, but I doubt it happens like that.

As I've said elsewhere a few times, the big thing is being able to significantly boost revenue as well - in the case of Newcastle you go from not in the CL to in the CL and make +100m or more a year already.

As I've also said before, I dont know the last time an Italian club already in the CL changed ownership? I think Inter is likely to change its ownership this year, dont get me wrong, but it doesnt really happen at this level for good reason





for me right now the best 'realistic' thing to hope for is a rich enough owner to wipe our bond debt, build the stadia (Essential in a new owner), and (nice to have) then maybe a bit of fake sponsorship or new sponsorship revenue to help close the gap on our losses a bit more (or, at least, be able to fund the losses from capital injections)

"Essential" already means a 2 billion + injection though sadly between buying the club, paying off the bonds, and building a stadium
 

Il Drago

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Dec 21, 2015
Messages
20,599
Likes
32,062
Favorite Player
Wesley Sneijder
Best Football Poster
Best Overall Poster
As I've also said before, I dont know the last time an Italian club already in the CL changed ownership?

Milan?
 
  • Like
Reactions: .h.

.h.

Part time Lazarus
La Grande Inter
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Messages
29,088
Likes
7,082
Favorite Player
Inter1-0Wanda
Old username
browha
Forum Supporter
10 years of FIF
Ah yeah that's right, I always have in mind they changed ownership just before they got back into the CL but that's incorrect (or rather when Elliott took it over).

I'd say it's a bit different because they were profitable or close to profitable, my point above is mainly about being about to be profitable - if you're already in the CL and losing like 150m, there's no easy path to profitability which is why there's much less demand for these clubs
 

Gal

Prima Squadra
Prima Squadra
Joined
Jul 18, 2022
Messages
937
Likes
802
If the main difference is the interest payment that we're forced to pay for Oaktree, then it is 100% the owner's problem...
Inter would not have to pay that or even make such a loan if it wasn’t for the fact previous owner had not indebted the club to such a high degree and had actually improved the finances to begin with. The root cause of the problem we have are not caused by neither the Zhang or the Chinese one party closing the coffers, it’s caused largely by how the club was run under Moratti, who indebted the club and who simply didn’t do a thing to strengthen the income side. Thohir tried but was incapable of clearing up but he did enough for Zhang to move in and continue the project. Yes they failed in their undertaking to a certain degree, but they aren’t really the root cause of our problems, they just didn’t help and improved our finances as we would have hoped but some of that is largely caused by the Covid19 and real estate scandal and collapse in China.

So Oaktree loan was the logical outcome of a situation where our owners suddenly couldn’t put new resources into the club, but it’s unsustainable to be so owner dependent… It’s best if Inter where self financing.
 
Last edited:

.h.

Part time Lazarus
La Grande Inter
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Messages
29,088
Likes
7,082
Favorite Player
Inter1-0Wanda
Old username
browha
Forum Supporter
10 years of FIF
Inter would not have to pay that or even make such a loan if it wasn’t for the fact previous owner had not indebted the club to such a high degree and had actually improved the finances to begin with. The root cause of the problem we have are not caused by neither the Zhang or the Chinese one party closing the coffers, it’s caused largely by how the club was run under Moratti, who indebted the club and who simply didn’t do a thing to strengthen the income side. Thohir tried but was incapable of clearing up but he did enough for Zhang to move in and continue the project. Yes they failed in their undertaking to a certain degree, but they aren’t really the root cause of our problems, they just didn’t help and improved our finances as we would have hoped but some of that is largely caused by the Covid19 and real estate scandal and collapse in China.

So Oaktree loan was the logical outcome of a situation where our owners suddenly couldn’t put new resources into the club, but it’s unsustainable to be so owner dependent… It’s best if Inter where self financing.
While I agree a lot with the spirit of the post I do have to question how long we can specifically blame moratti here. Like, Zhangs didn't buy an inter burdened by Moratti legacy contracts, unlike thohir. Our financial basis isn't improved because of moratti obviously but no Italian clubs really are - so he just matched the trend really.

The problem is that the squad we have assembled is more than we should be able to afford. Write downs, interest, etc don't help the situation any but they are minor issues on the side rather than the core issue.
 

Il Drago

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Dec 21, 2015
Messages
20,599
Likes
32,062
Favorite Player
Wesley Sneijder
Best Football Poster
Best Overall Poster
While I agree a lot with the spirit of the post I do have to question how long we can specifically blame moratti here. Like, Zhangs didn't buy an inter burdened by Moratti legacy contracts, unlike thohir. Our financial basis isn't improved because of moratti obviously but no Italian clubs really are - so he just matched the trend really.

The problem is that the squad we have assembled is more than we should be able to afford. Write downs, interest, etc don't help the situation any but they are minor issues on the side rather than the core issue.

Agreed. While Moratti takes the blame for banter era most of our curent struggles are due to Zhangs and how they operated in 2019/20 (especially in 2019 summer). They went on a spending spree with money club didn't have and raised operation costs significantly. When they couldn't financially support the club anymore it had huge repercussions. It may have brought CL revenue on a consistent basis and success on the pitch but it also made the club financially unsustainable and they had to take a loan from a vulture fund to keep the club afloat. Despite cutting costs significantly for third financial year in a row they're still very far from break even.
 

.h.

Part time Lazarus
La Grande Inter
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Messages
29,088
Likes
7,082
Favorite Player
Inter1-0Wanda
Old username
browha
Forum Supporter
10 years of FIF
Agreed. While Moratti takes the blame for banter era most of our curent struggles are due to Zhangs and how they operated in 2019/20 (especially in 2019 summer). They went on a spending spree with money club didn't have and raised operation costs significantly. When they couldn't financially support the club anymore it had huge repercussions. It may have brought CL revenue on a consistent basis and success on the pitch but it also made the club financially unsustainable and they had to take a loan from a vulture fund to keep the club afloat. Despite cutting costs significantly for third financial year in a row they're still very far from break even.
tbh, for me, they made a pretty sensible decision - to invest in the club. Some of the legacy hangover - e.g. JM, Nainggolan, etc that needed terminations - impacted our financials, as did COVID, and the commercial revenue side (eg fake sponsors). I think if you were to "play it again" from what we know now, you'd basically make many of the same decisions, except focus much harder on trying to get better sponsorship revenue. We've gone from scraping top 4 to being comfortably in the CL every year, and hopefully this year we make at least the QF.
 

Adriano@10

Allenatore
Allenatore
Joined
May 22, 2004
Messages
9,489
Likes
2,415
Favorite Player
Oba
10 years of FIF
Yeah but my.point is Oaktree barely impacts Inters P&L. Our debt and inability to operate as a football club is because we spend a fuckload more money than we make. We spend like a top premiership side, but we make like 40-60% of what a top prem side makes.

And yes there's probably some loss of money because of our ownership but you'd need sponsorships that blow Juves fake sponsorships out of the water for us to not need plusvalenza every season.
Have we not had this exact conversation on here and came to the conclusion that suning just passes on the interest cost to inter? SO it very much affects our P&L....

Also side note i still get the feeling that steve does not want to sell and if he can find a way around it he ll try.
 

.h.

Part time Lazarus
La Grande Inter
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Messages
29,088
Likes
7,082
Favorite Player
Inter1-0Wanda
Old username
browha
Forum Supporter
10 years of FIF
Have we not had this exact conversation on here and came to the conclusion that suning just passes on the interest cost to inter? SO it very much affects our P&L....

Also side note i still get the feeling that steve does not want to sell and if he can find a way around it he ll try.

Yes, the interest costs are just passed on to Inter, but Inter is only accruing debt on like 60mil of the loan, NOT the whole loan. The interest of accrual on the main loan is held at Great Horizons, but Inter is only clocking interest on the 60mil.
 

Adriano@10

Allenatore
Allenatore
Joined
May 22, 2004
Messages
9,489
Likes
2,415
Favorite Player
Oba
10 years of FIF
Yes, the interest costs are just passed on to Inter, but Inter is only accruing debt on like 60mil of the loan, NOT the whole loan. The interest of accrual on the main loan is held at Great Horizons, but Inter is only clocking interest on the 60mil.
Obviously, but hat being said one would assume that the Zhangs dont just have the rest of that loan in cash balance at Great horizonz......
 

.h.

Part time Lazarus
La Grande Inter
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Messages
29,088
Likes
7,082
Favorite Player
Inter1-0Wanda
Old username
browha
Forum Supporter
10 years of FIF
Obviously, but hat being said one would assume that the Zhangs dont just have the rest of that loan in cash balance at Great horizonz......
I think they probably do, to be completely honest. I think (a) the COVID losses recovered faster than they expected e.g. stadia reopening, (b) unexpectedly significant plusvalenza in Hakimi and Lukaku, and (c) the CL run has meant that we didnt need anywhere near as much of that loan as was expected.


The main point of the series, anyway, is that Inter's balance sheet - and FFP compliance, etc, does not have any significant contribution from the Oaktree loan, so that debt is irrelevant in so far as its impact on our finances. The bonds from Inter MediaCo do matter, but the Oaktree loan is basically irrelevant for Inter
 

Gal

Prima Squadra
Prima Squadra
Joined
Jul 18, 2022
Messages
937
Likes
802
Even TS can sometimes find a nail in a haystack, doesn’t happen often but don’t mean they aren’t right this time.
 

Adriano@10

Allenatore
Allenatore
Joined
May 22, 2004
Messages
9,489
Likes
2,415
Favorite Player
Oba
10 years of FIF
I think they probably do, to be completely honest. I think (a) the COVID losses recovered faster than they expected e.g. stadia reopening, (b) unexpectedly significant plusvalenza in Hakimi and Lukaku, and (c) the CL run has meant that we didnt need anywhere near as much of that loan as was expected.


The main point of the series, anyway, is that Inter's balance sheet - and FFP compliance, etc, does not have any significant contribution from the Oaktree loan, so that debt is irrelevant in so far as its impact on our finances. The bonds from Inter MediaCo do matter, but the Oaktree loan is basically irrelevant for Inter
I get that my point was more that the urgency to sell might not be that big if they kept most of that oaktree loan at great horizon...
As in if they re not complete idiots (financialy illiterate) they have invested the money they did not put in to inter.
Which would A make the interest payments less burdensome and B would maybe give them some possibility in re negotiating with oaktree...
As in it would suggest they might find a deal where they repay a rather big chunck of the loan and only refinance like 50%/30% of it. Which i think would be possible even if you have to involve a third party...
 

.h.

Part time Lazarus
La Grande Inter
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Messages
29,088
Likes
7,082
Favorite Player
Inter1-0Wanda
Old username
browha
Forum Supporter
10 years of FIF
ah yes, it would be interesting to know how much they'd actually need to refinance for to be honest.

re investing, conceptually yes, but there's obviously a lot of risk in that - no guaranteed returns right.


also if you want to be risk adverse, we're still gonna keep losing money, so he probably needs some liquidity
 

Gal

Prima Squadra
Prima Squadra
Joined
Jul 18, 2022
Messages
937
Likes
802
The rumour seem to at least be partly grounded on something concrete, Investcorp won’t deny they placed a bid on Inter they admit this to a local paper.

Which usually implies they most likely have at least enquired about it… It’s no secret they are looking into investment in the sport. So certainly make sense they are the one.

Investcorp is not going to behave like the owner of City and PSG. I have no doubt they will try making inter profitable and self financing if these are indeed the one willing to purchase the club… They aren’t going to toss billions into the coffers or make artificially fake sponsorship deal, not how this company go about their business.
 
Top